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Buzz (2019)
CROWD:
Three, two, one... Happy New Year! FRANKIE MARTINO: These tapes are the next big thing. Who knew that they were lighting it up like this? Come join the party (MUSIC CONCLUDES) (WAVES CRASH) (MUSIC PLAYS) Showtime. It's like the biography of Bob Fosse, with Roy Scheider. I always remember when he would, like, look in the mirror every morning and say, "Showtime." That's what being a reporter is like. Showtime. (MUSIC CONTINIUES) BOB COSTAS: The best of Buzz Bissinger, as a writer and as a guy, if you just separated out the best of him, he's been to some mountaintops. (FOOTSTEPS APPROACH) Okay, Buzz. Let's get it on. Here's my proposal: You say yes to the book... -CAITLYN JENNER: All right. -...I write it... ...I get all the money, but I thank you. -Isn't this-- -I-- I thank you at the end. Is-- Isn't this just where we started, Buzz? Pretty much. I had-- I was telling her, I had the first sandwich ever... -Uh-huh. -...in this house. But I look a lot better now. (CHUCKLES) A lot better. You look fantastic. GRAYDON CARTER: You know, Buzz is a straight shooter. He's a sensitive reporter as well, so, you can send him out on a... on a great story and he, um... he handles things with great sensitivity, as he did the Caitlyn Jenner story. And he was my first choice for that story. (MUSIC RESUMES) CARTER: It's the most iconic magazine cover of the last 15, 20 years. I mean I'm sure that cover was seen by almost every... sentient being in the world. BUZZ: So, let's talk about the book a little bit: what you're thinking, what I'm thinking. Is there a book beyond the piece, basically? -Right. -You want a book to be fresh. You know, it's gonna sell, but it'll really sell, I think, if it's all new. JENNER: I think... it's one-third... dealing with my issues... one third, or maybe even more, of this community... -Mm-hmm. -...and what I have learned. But I would also like to have an element of what's happening in social media to see how the internet, the-- the tabloids, trash media, this and that, how it changed the world. BUZZ: I think all of that should be in there, and then it's like-- it's like the Vanity Fair piece -What's the structure? -Yeah. Well, actually there's a pretty good structure, which is the education of Caitlyn. -JENNER: Right. -You know, you-- Everything you're doing now, I would think, is completely new. So, I think there is a book. And I think any book is enhanced by new reporting and new information. Right, right. I think there are many more people dealing with difference than we know about... -JENNER: Oh, I guarantee it. -...who want to express -and are-- Look, uh, you know... -JENNER: Everybody-- You've been through it in spades but I've been through it, too. It's really hard. JENNER: Everybody's got their stuff, -because we're all different. -Right. It's a seminal moment in, um... in terms of... the-- our culture, that... Bruce Jenner became Caitlyn Jenner. I mean, and-- and Caitlyn Jenner now is out in the world and is... really kind of-- she's not vilified. You know, she's... she's sort of celebrated. Her story is really important and I think it's good that Buzz is-- is gonna tell it. This is not just about transgender men and women; it's about difference, and it's about accepting and celebrating difference, which is hard. -JENNER: I agree. -Which is really-- and I f-- I feel and I really now am sort of committed to gender-- You know, what-- I don't know what gender is. I don't, you know, I don't know what men's clothing is, I don't know what women's clothing-- Who gives a shit? -JENNER: Yeah, I agree. -Who gives a shit? -We're just all people. -Right. We're all human beings. And I-- And I really thank you for that. -I mean, it's heartfelt. -Yeah. No. This, to me, is an extraordinarily important book, and I think it's really going to be a lot of fun. COSTAS: The outlier always has to consider not just the truth and the integrity of their own position, their own feelings, but also, what's the effect in the real world? Imperfect and narrow-minded as some of that real world may be, what's the effect on those they love? (MUSIC PLAYS) BUZZ: That's it. You're a good girl. That's it. BUZZ: I love Lisa to death. She's delightful. She has a big heart. She's warm. She's funny. She's beautiful. (BOTH LAUGHING) LISA SMITH: Well, it sure looks beachy out here. BUZZ: What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? BUZZ: But I have a darkness and I've done a lot of damage. That's it. That's as much as I run ever. BUZZ: I hope we stay married. We should be married, because there's a lot of love between us. When people are getting married, and if they're ever asked for any advice about marriage, it's sort of, you have to see it through. You have to be committed to it, because if you started out and you thought it was worth it, then it's probably still worth it. LISA: Maddy! Maddy B! Come on! Hurry up! Come on. LISA: In my case, it really was, and it's the third marriage for both of us. So... I think we're gonna make it this time. Of course, we're old people now, so... where else would we go, right? (LAUGHS) BUZZ: My son's getting married Saturday. -WAITER: Congratulations, sir. -Hey, thank you. So, this is my-- this is my last dinner when he's really my son. -WAITER: His last-- Last free man. -GERRY BISSINGER: That's right! (GERRY LAUGHS) -I got 48 hours left. -My-- My-- My baby -is officially flying the coop. -(GERRY LAUGHS) We have to do one shot. Tequila? What do you want to do? I'll do tequila. -BUZZ: 2 tequilas. We shot it-- -Patron? -WAITER: Yeah. -Yeah, okay. I'm gonna miss you. I feel like it's-- it's weird. I got a little weepy over the weekend. My dad did this with me. (CHUCKLES) -Where'd you guys do it? -(BUZZ CHUCKLES) BUZZ: It's really not smart for me to give him any advice about marriage. But I remember my dad doing that with me. There was something really important about it. It was just my dad and me and... and, you know, he sort of tried to give advice, but it was very intimate. I-- I do think, you know, learn from my mistakes. Yeah. There's always a feeling that when you get married that all the things you did before you were married, -all the kindness is off. -Right. Right. You know, I can do anything-- the fuck I want. You can take it out on somebody and it doesn't matter. You can't. I mean, I learned that the hard way. Cheers, dude! No, this is a big one. This is getting married, cheers to that. To a long and happy and beautiful life, because you really are a beautiful son. -Thank you. I appreciate that. -Come on. (GROANS) God. The fact that I've worn women's clothing, does that freak you out? No. -It's just that it's-- -Not really. It's an expression. I don't-- It doesn't really bother me. I mean, I'm used to it. I like that you're different than everybody else. Everybody's the same, Dad. How do you feel that I painted my toenails the color of my tuxedo? You know, it's like, I just laugh. I just think, "All right, it's you." You seem to handle it pretty well. Have you ever had a pedicure? -No. -I highly recommend it. -I'm not doing it. -Oh, come on! -Why? -Dana wants me to get one. Oh, they're great. You put your... put your feet in the bubble sauce. -She wants me to get a manicure. -Oh, and they cut your nails. -I get a manicure. -Yeah, yeah. -Oh, it's great. -(LAUGHS) They massage your feet. Where do you get your haircut, like the marine training center? Pretty-- Pretty short, man. Yeah. No, I like getting it short. You know what? We're gonna be really bad, and then you have to cut us off, all right? -WAITER: (CHUCKLES) Right. -'Cause-- 'Cause-- -I mean, he's young. -(GERRY LAUGHS) You probably do them all the time, but, you know, I'm an old guy. (PIANO MUSIC PLAYS) LISA: So are you ready for the big wedding? -BUZZ: Should I show him? -No. -I should show Andrew. -Andrew what? -My nails. -Yes! Oh, God. So, we went-- Yesterday we went to the, uh, to get our mani/pedis and look what Buzz did. -Nice, huh? -BUZZ: That beautiful or what? LISA: I would call that less mani and more... -more... (LAUGHS) -(BUZZ LAUGHS) LISA: More girly. LISA: When I met him, I had, I was divorced twice. He was divorced twice. He had three kids. The twins were, uh, his-- from wife number one. Then he married wife number two. He had his third son, Caleb, and they have a very close relationship. They started having a very close relationship when Caleb was about, I would say, ten. BUZZ: You know, they're my kids. They're magnificent, and they're all totally different. But, you know, I just, I love being a dad. Hi, Dad. Zach, what's up? Not much. (ECHOES THROUGH PHONE) -Can you hear me? -Yeah. Can you hear me talking to you? Or can you hear me on my phone? ZACH: Yeah, yeah, yeah. (ECHOES THROUGH PHONE) Isn't this cool? ZACH: Yeah. (ECHOES) What do you think? I'm talking into my wrist. Yeah. -Do you want one of these? -No thanks. All right, see you later. Bye, bye. -Bye. -What do you think? -Pretty good. -(BUZZ CHUCKLES) Buzz is the father that I wish I had had. Buzz cares about his kids beyond anything else. He-- And he's-- He's a complete narcissist. You probably know this 'cause you know him. But Buzz is a complete narcissist unless his kids are involved. Then he's all about his kids. BUZZ: So Zach, are you excited about the wedding or what? -ZACH: Very. -BUZZ: You seem very excited. And why? ZACH: We're gonna have another Bissinger. -Dana Bissinger now, right? -(BUZZ CHUCKLES) With the family. BUZZ: Zach, you're-- you're kind of wonderful, you know. You are. There's gonna be another Bissinger. LISA: His twins were premature. One of them is going to be... impaired forever. One of them is completely, fabulously successful in our world. He's a principal of a... school in Haddonfield, New Jersey. He's an amazing kid. They're both amazing kids, both the twins. But Zach has brain damage because he came out of the chute... late. PIERS MORGAN: You decide to take Zach on this road trip... -BUZZ: Yes. Yes. -MORGAN: ...around America. What did you learn about fatherhood that maybe surprised you when you went on this trip? Well, I think it's-- it's-- it's about, um, acceptance. It took me a long time. Father's Day is a very honest book. Uh, coming to grips with a son who is very, very different, and there were moments it was really hard for me to accept. You know, I came from a high-powered family. I have dreams of ambition, uh, for my kids, as we all do. But once you get acceptance, then you get appreciation and then you get joy. I think it's the best book he's ever written. Better than Friday Night Lights, better than A Prayer for the City, the best book he's ever written. BUZZ: What-- What did you-- what did you say about-- the nice thing about a wedding is? You see people you haven't seen in a while? -Yeah. Yeah. -BUZZ: Is that what you said? (KEYBOARD TAPPING) (DISTANT APPLAUSE) -BUZZ: Come on, Zach. -ZACH: Yep. BUZZ: Come on. Come on. Are you guys ready? CROWD: Yeah! (CROWD CHEERING) (INDISTINCT) -You want me to hold it? -No, I can do it. All right. I just want to say I love my brother and I love Dana, and I'm very, very happy they are married. I will miss them, but I know... BUZZ: That they love me. ...that-- that they love me and will always take care of me. (CHUCKLING) If they don't, I will stop texting them! (LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE) (CROWD CHEERING) BUZZ: On that note, thank you, good night, have a good marriage. I'll see you next year. (LAUGHTER) BUZZ: It was also my father, of course, who after my second marriage, begged not to be invited to a third if there was one. And he and my mom did pass away before I found the meaning of marriage, what it can be, with the incredible Lisa. So, I give a toast to you, my darling. (APPLAUSE) LISA: Buzz is really a remarkable guy who kind of does this zig-zaggy path, and it's kind of cool to watch, it's kind of cool to see, and it's kind of cool to live through. I'm so proud of both of you. You're so beautiful. He is my family. He and his boys, they're my family, and the dog. I mean, that's who we are. JENNER: Now, this is the way we do it. I want to hear it, so you read. -Okay. -And when we come to notes and things that I want... You want me to read it? You want me to read it. Okay. -All right. That's fine. -JENNER: Yeah. -All right, Prologue, you ready? -Yeah. Go. "I'm at the Marriott Hotel in Orlando giving the speech to the sales force at Merck, six in a row, one after the other, the same words and the same message and the same title and the same feigned enthusiasm just like the hundreds of other times I have given it forward and backwards across the country. They're coming to listen to the Bruce Jenner who saved the United States Olympic team from abject disgrace at the hands of the Soviet Union -in East Germany. -(CROWD CHEERING) BUZZ: The Bruce Jenner who literally overnight became an American hero. The Bruce Jenner who was the essence of the virile male athlete and can screw everything that moves as the ultimate female conquistador. - (MUSIC PLAYS) -(CROWD CHEERING) BUZZ: They don't know that when I look in the mirror I see something entirely different, a body that I fundamentally loathe, a beard that is always noticeable no matter how close the shave, a penis that is useless except for pissing in the woods, a chest that should have breasts, a face with a jawline too sharp and a forehead too high. They don't know that contrary to the image, I've had sex with roughly five women in my life, three of them ex-wives." God, did you waste yourself. Okay. (CHUCKLING) Waste yourself. BUZZ: Damn it. See, you would've just loved to have been me at that time. You would've been banging everything there was. The last fucking thing I have is gender dysphoria. You walking around as Olympic champion in the decathlon. -Six-two? -JENNER: (INDISTINCT) You kiddin'? Six-two, muscled out? JENNER: Twosome. -Yeah, six-two. -I'd still be doing it. -Yeah, you would just-- -Yeah. You'd still be out there. -I wouldn't be fucking doing this book. I'd be getting laid. I'm co-- In my next life I'm coming back with you, but none of this gender shit. JENNER: Mm. One would think that being so close to somebody who transitioned from male to female, and did it so publicly, and did it so, kind of, really, uh, in an orchestrated way, and then for Buzz to be in on it, that it-- it would influence him personally... Let's do it! ...because of his interests in cross dressing and stuff. BUZZ: I mean there's a lot of weird shit going on between us. It's a kind of interesting chemistry. I'm not talking sexually, but a chemistry of... I've-- I've watched her go through trans-- a very, very radical transition, obviously, and then I'm thinking in terms of my own development and-- and-- and where it's going, and, you know, the-- the idea that you need to be your authentic self. (MUSIC PLAYS) BUZZ: During the year, I'll be hanging out with other transgender women and what impact will that have? Will it... entice me even more? I don't know. I mean, I don't know. (MUSIC CONTINUES) BUZZ: There is nothing worse than a blank page. You write the beginning, maybe it's artful, maybe it's beautiful, but then, what the fuck do I do? There's no flow to it. There is no narrative. What's my next move? How do I make it cohesive? How do I make it coherent? How do I make it narrative? And I was stuck. That fucking blank page, and the deadline is increasing and your heart is racing. Will yourself, because then you'll feel relief. And once you feel relief, you'll feel confidence. I would die to have Buzz as a teacher. He'll be one of those guys, he'll be one of those famous, no-bullshit teachers that kids absolutely gravitate to. Self-serving, self-serving, who gives a shit? Who gives a shit? It's boring. (LAUGHTER) Don't be boring. And I think in the midst of all his no-bullshit-talk, he's on the right track. You know, life is very complex, and to try to sum up anything with a cute little bowtie, which most journalists do, is bullshit. CARTER: He's a correct-no-bullshit, um, a no-bullshitter, whereas some fake no-bullshit bullshitters, he's-- he's-- I've always found him to be an incredibly sane person. He'll be a big hit at that. STUDENT: Just, like, in reading this draft, your sentences are a lot, like, not as tight... -BUZZ: Right. -...as, like, when you're, like, obviously, the finished piece, or, like, even the later drafts. -BUZZ: Right. Good point. -Um... do you, like, focus more on, like, if there's a-- a-- a sentence in your head that you're about, like, "Okay, I'm gonna get this out." Do you care less about, like, the wording here? BUZZ: I mean, at this point, I want it to be in English. -Okay. -(LAUGHTER) But I don't really-- I don't really give a shit about it. I can tighten the sentence later. Uh, I want the thought, I want the flow. If I'm in the-- if I'm in the moment, if I'm in the flow, keep the flow, keep the flow going. Then it gets exciting, 'cause often you write the story and you write it in chunks and you'll say, "Oh, fuck, there's my lead. That's my lead. That's really good. I can see that. I can see the story grow organically if I use that lead." And that's exciting. And it may be buried. It may be at the end of the story. It may be at the beginning of a story. Um, or it may be in the middle, but that's-- that's your lead, and now I-- I can see the narrative take shape. "I got it. I got it. I got it." And that's fucking delicious. I mean that's why we write. That's fucking delicious. There's nothing like it. There's nothing like it. It's not like making money. It's not being like a fucking lawyer. There's nothing like it. That is really exciting, and that's why you should be taking this course and all courses if you love to write. WILLIAM K. MARIMOW: Buzz won the Pulitzer in 1987 on a series about the courts. The Pulitzer represents really the acme, the zenith of professional achievement in journalism. ANNIE BISSINGER: He always was a good writer. I remember us doing a paper on GM at one point. And he got a hold of-- He-- He-- He came this close to going to the annual meeting. He got an aunt who had a proxy and he was gonna go. You know he would really go in depth in-- into things. And it's kind of what's wonderful about his writing now is that you get that feeling from him that he has really, really given it a lot of thought. But I think he also tends to, um, romanticize a lot of the-- a lot of the past. COSTAS: Many writers, once they're done with the subject, they move on. After Friday Night Lights, Buzz just couldn't turn his back on-- on these people whose lives became in-- intertwined with-- with his own. BUZZ: "It was the watermelon feed, the moment in August where all the boosters and fans came together. One-by-one they were announced, and then came Boobie." "He acknowledged the loud applause of the crowd crowd like a prom queen or an Academy Award winner having the first of what would undoubtedly be a lifetime of moments such as these. Exuberant chants of 'Boobie' echoed through the room and the world belonged to him. Why are the scores of Permian games so lopsided, Boobie himself had posed the question one day? Because they only have one Boobie." (LAUGHTER) "And in two days when Permian went up north to Amarillo for a preseason scrimmage against the Palo Duro Dons, people would get their first real taste of what he was going to do, the season when he and he alone was the shining star of the Permian Panthers." (SNIFFLES) LENA STRAUB: You're listening to KXW FM Ninety-One point Three, West Texas Public Radio. My name is Lena Straub and I'm here today with H.G. Bissinger to talk about the 25th anniversary of his controversial book, Friday Night Lights. Mr. Bissinger, welcome. BUZZ: Well, thank you. You received a lot of hate mail, as I understand, after that. You know, I received a certain amount of hate or anger. You know, it all was pretty much from people, uh, in Odessa. They-- They-- They felt betrayed. They felt the portrayal... Basically, it seems to me that their argument is is that everything in the book was true, uh, but it happens other places and it was a matter of emphasis. And all I can say is, 25 years later, I'm not here to engage in an argument. What happened at, uh, Permian, although you can identify with it, a lot of towns and places are similar, the Permian program was insane. You know, when you're spending more on athletic tape for the football program than you are on books for the English department that the chairman wants, that's insane. When the use of the "N" word is uttered to me directly at least a dozen times and some of it was directed at an 18-year-old African American kid whose misfortune was to get hurt before the season, that's insane. I'm not here to seek forgiveness. They should be forgiving Boobie Miles, or he should be forgiving them. They should be apologizing to him for what they did. (MUSIC PLAYS) Hi, we're here to do a media interview with an inmate. Reminds me of Cool Hand Luke. -BUZZ: Yo! -JAMES "BOOBIE" MILES: Hey! BUZZ: They sent the wrong person at first. BOOBIE: Huh? BUZZ: They sent the wrong person! (BOOBIE LAUGHS) BUZZ: It was Andre Davis. (BOTH LAUGH) -BUZZ: You live, man! -What's going on? -BUZZ: You live. -Yeah. -I do. -You live. -Lookin' good. -Yeah, buffin' out. Yeah? -You all right? -Yeah. Good, man. Good, buddy. BUZZ: So, let's, uh... How long-- How long have you been in here? -Since two-thousand-- -Two and a half years. How's it been here? Ah, it's okay. It's okay, man. I mean, you know, anything is better than being locked up, but hey. And I had to-- I came to grips of it's not-- -it's nobody's fault but mine. -BUZZ: Mm-hmm. Do you feel cheated? Do you feel robbed? I mean do you-- Or-- Or have you let it go? I don't want to put words in your mouth. Uh, I-- I feel-- I feel, uh... I feel robbed of my education. -BUZZ: Your education. -Yeah. -Because-- -BUZZ: 'Cause they didn't give a shit, did they? -Yeah, they didn't care. -They didn't care. As long as I-- As long as I could play, I could get A's. When you get hurt, they don't care no more. Weren't you-- Then you were flunking everything. Yes, I was flunking everything. I had to literally, in order for me to graduate, when I started, when I-- I got hurt, (CHUCKLES) I got my report card, man, I had fifties and sixties. You understand what I'm saying? After getting what, eighties and nineties? After getting eighties and nineties, man. And you were getting the answers. Weren't you basically getting the answers to tests? That's what you told me. they'd give the answers. I'd get the test before the day. I'd get the answers and the test. I used to be upset about all that, But, ah, forget it. Well, tell-- In what way? Uh, you know, you're Boobie Miles. You know, just not being the... what I feel like I should have been. -You understand what I'm saying? -Mm-hmm. You know, I feel like every time somebody mentions me that they should see something better. That you should have been something better? -Right. -Do you think that, too? Uh... You know, there's always that woulda, coulda, if. You know what I'm saying? -I think I do. -But it doesn't-- It doesn't haunt me as bad as it used to. -It doesn't. -Used to. BOOBIE: Well, I tell you the truth, man, I... I f-- I feel good about myself -even though I'm in the... -BUZZ: Hmm? ...crazy environment, messed up environment. -Right. -But... I felt like if it didn't, some-- something like this didn't happen, I-- I might be dead somewhere, man. -It was that bad? -Yeah. And were you packing? Were you-- Of course. No, I was... you know, I was... selling shit. Even when I gave you that money? -Yeah. -You were selling stuff? -Yeah. -Drugs? -Yeah. -Wh--what, cocaine? Or whatever you could get your hands on? Weed, ecstasy, cocaine... Why were you doing that when you had all that money, man? I don't know, Buzz. I was looking for attention. I had people around me. I had... That's the most-- That's the most-- the smartest thing you've ever said to me, that you recognize. Yeah. I had-- -You wanted the attention. -Yeah, I had-- -Kinda like playing football. -Right. -You liked-- you liked that. -Right. Right. You like the attention. You like being the man. Right. I had that all. As long as I had that... I had friends. I really wish you weren't in here. Yeah, I know, Buzz, man. I love you, man. You take care. I love you, too. We'll be in touch. -But you seem good. You do. -All right. All right, man, I love you. I love you, too. -Take it easy. All right. -All right. (MUSIC PLAYS) ANNOUNCER: Let's see what the Panthers call out with the time-out. Mike Winchell gives it back to James Miles. Miles follows his blocker. Miles, a first down and a little bit more! They won't quit. They never quit. Miles at the first down at the thirty-yard line. Down at the twenty-five. First down! I've never seen anything like it. Miles will have the penetration, will have it to the ten, will have it to the five. That's a MOJO touchdown! He'll have it all the way! Oh, running room. That's the MOJO touchdown! The MOJO, the MOJO, the MOJO. James Miles! BUZZ: I'm here because it's the 25th... um, anniversary of the book, and so we've put out a new edition and, um, in that edition is a new afterword in which I've updated the lives of the players. Do you know where Boobie is now? -Do they know? -STUDENTS: Jail. Yeah, in prison. Yeah. I went and saw him in prison. It was really hard. He's had a tough life. He was very honest about himself, about what he did right, what he did wrong in life, and how he really hopes that no one ever repeats what happened to him. He talks about that a lot, that he's... a role model in a sense for what shouldn't happen, because he got no education. Sure. I don't mean to sound like a mean 14-year-old girl, but can you explain your t-- style to me? Would you? BUZZ: My dress? Yeah. I know it's-- it's not typical of west Texas, but the thing about dressing, the thing about being yourself is you gotta be yourself, right? You can't-- You can't, uh... dress or live according to what you think others want. You should never, ever do that and I did that for a long time. TEACHER: All right, guys. One, two, three. - (MUSIC PLAYS) -(CROWD ROARS) BUZZ: How do you stop yourself from going stark raving mad, honestly? JENNER: Because my life is good. I've accomplished a lot in my life. I have wonderful children. I have work. I have a beautiful home. I have people's adulation every day, congratulating me on the games some thirty years later. STADIUM ANNOUNCER: Bruce Jenner! BUZZ: But all that... that's good about your life, ultimately is not enough, is it? Because you're not being yourself, right? JENNER: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. -It is not enough. -It is not enough. And it will never be enough, will it? JENNER: Unless... I eventually, someday, get peace in my soul. ANDREW SEAH: Can you imagine Buzz coming to you and saying he's gonna transition? We-- We've had talks about-- Wh-- what do you mean can I imagine? Of course, we've discussed this. BUZZ: You know, there are a lot of-- a lot of men who are-- are cross-dressers. You know. LISA: You sort of said that once, that you... BUZZ: That wha-- That what? You're always pushing me into these sexual realms that are not true. -Okay. -What did I say? What did you say? That I wanted to be a woman? I thought that you said that you wanted-- that you thought you might want to be a woman. Well, I wanted to be Derek Jeter, too. That didn't happen. And I want to be tall. -I wanted you to be Derek Jeter. -(BOTH LAUGH) -Will you just for once... -That was good. BUZZ: Ah, that's it. Doesn't that make you feel better? Yeah, it's like-- Yeah. BUZZ: It makes me feel better. We don't have sex together anymore. And, um, that's okay with me. BUZZ: We both kind of gave up, and I think you just really didn't wanna have sex anymore. I just don't think you cared. No, it's true, I didn't. -BUZZ: Well... -I still don't. What about having sex because of love? I'm game. I mean, I'm game. For love? No, I'm too squeamish. (CHUCKLES) Yeah, you get squeamish about it. You know the-- the strangest outgrowth, it was on September 11th, actually. We were in bed and making love and my first wife called and said you got to turn on the television and that was that. I guess we turned on the television and never quite recovered. So, we hadn't had sex for a long time and, you know, it's hard. I-- I read recently, um, an essay by the guy who edits "Modern Love" in the New York Times. And he kind of-- (CHUCKLES) he put people who are having modern love problems into categories and I am in a cat-- Buzz and I are in a category and that category is accepting that we have a very good relationship, but understanding that it lacks certain things, and one of those things is a sexual relationship. BUZZ: Showtime. Let's go. BUZZ: "Like me, Buzz is different, with a legendary leather fetish that he once wrote about for GQ in a somewhat legendary story. As I later found out, he wears it all the time, looking like a cross between a minor mobster and Joan Jett and Sid Vicious, albeit with a Pulitzer Prize. (JENNER CHUCKLES) At a certain point, one of the tabloids will simply refer to him as the Leatherman. Skull rings cover the fingers on both hands and then he starts wearing bright red nail polish. I like that about Buzz. I like that a lot." That's the best part of the book, actually. JENNER: Best part of the book, yeah. You finally get to describe yourself. Pretty well, I might say. -Yeah, uh, perfectly. -(BUZZ CHUCKLES) BUZZ: "Even--" Wait, this is good. "Even if I worry sometimes that he's a little unbalanced." (CHUCKLING) A little? A little unbalanced. Yeah, right, a little. The pieces are in place-- And a little unbalanced just like me. All right, that's good, that's good. Yeah. We have a lot in common. That's good. That's good. Yeah. (MUSIC PLAYS) I purchased my first pair of leather pants here. I was thinking about it, like 1993 or '94. That's kind of a nice, uh... it's different. I bought this the last time I was here. It's fucking great. I never wear it. I should though. It's great. I want to see what size this is. Of course, I look like a member of the fucking SS, but that's all right. I've bought stuff like this. I don't know if I've bought stuff like that here. All these boots I've had. It's-- It's all depravation. I mean, you know, you're a slave, so you can't... You breathe, but your mouth isn't closed. Your breathing's gonna be hard. It's through the-- It's cool. I mean, I get off on it. We'll go downstairs. These are pretty soft. That's much harder. That's gonna hurt. This is neoprene. Pretty neat. BUZZ: I didn't wear a stitch of leather until I was divorced for the second time, which would have been, I don't know, '92, '93. So, how old would I have been, 40? I bought a leather jacket with a dominatrix that I was, uh, I was seeing. When I was at the Inquirer in the mid-eighties, I answered an ad somewhere and went to New York and... you know, and saw some dominatrix. It only lasted an hour. I just did it once, but then when I was breaking up from my, uh, second marriage, I got into it pretty heavily. I've had the-- I've bought the-- I don't know why I'm telling you all this. I had that. I bought that here. These are sounding devices. -SHEA: What does that mean? -They go into your cock. Yeah, these are standard cock rings. You just put them around your cock. You can wear them whenever you want. Gets intense. (CHUCKLING) I don't know what that is. Looks like fun though. (CHUCKLES) I don't know where it opens. I don't know if it opens in the top. You lie in the cage until your master or dominatrix lets you out. Trust me, I'm not the only one who's into this. LISA: If you want to de-- deconstruct S&M, it's difficult, because I get it-- I get it as, um, in terms of power. The power equation in a sexual relationship is always, uh, at the forefront, I think, so-- so that the-- the shifting in power, um, and the heightening of power and submissiveness, that can be really sexy, can be super sexy. (BUZZ SIGHS) BUZZ: Do you-- What do you have for gloves? CLERK: These are a little tight. BUZZ: Yeah, anything thin? CLERK: These are much nicer. BUZZ: Yeah, they are much nicer, but you only have them in large? These are not bad, actually. Are they small? All right, they're good. I'm gonna take these. These I like. -You want a bag? -Nah, it's okay. Thanks, man. LISA: So, you know, look, I-- I was a sexual adventurer. I mean, I'm good looking. I mean, I was really good looking when I was younger, if I may say. And, um, and so I could, you know, just call the shots whenever I wanted to have sex pretty much. And so I did it all the time and I did all sorts of stuff with girls, with boys, with men, with women, you know. Not-- Not young girls, not young boys, but, um, you know, my age. But, at any rate, um, so, I was... attracted to him, I think, because I had done all that stuff and, uh, he hadn't. He'd been totally buttoned down his whole life. Even when he was being bad, he was buttoned down. She had been what I wanted to be. I mean, as a teenager, she had been out there. She had had a lot of fun. She slept with a lot of people. She had had her fill. Sexuality, I mean, it's-- it's a theme, right, through all of this in that, um, Buzz's sexuality is-- is he... interested in men? Is he interested in cross-dressing? Is he interested in... is he heterosexual, but interested in S&M? It's-- It's-- It's hard to say. Um... I think he's heterosexual, but I think he's onanistic actually. I think that he's... And-- And-- And who knows what the roots of that are. BUZZ: (VOICEOVER) My family hated dogs. I was so repressed as a child and teenager. You knew it. You saw it. I was scared of everything. But that repression damaged me. I should have explored. I should've been true to myself. "A fraud when it came to being my authentic self, public figure, and private shadow." Love that! Oh, good. I mean, that is good to hear. -'Cause... -JENNER: Yeah. that took a long time to write, so I'm glad I got it right. Yeah. I like that. "Public figure, private shadow." -Good. Good. -Yeah. BUZZ: Good father to my step-children-- Thank God I finally found something in this, Buzz. Yeah, see on page 15 it actually says-- Now, besides me rewriting everything. -So, you fucking like something. -Yeah, I know. That's really nice. Really makes me feel good. Thanks a lot. Yeah. No, I like that. "Public figure, private shadow." I don't-- Yeah, let's see, one, two, that's five words out of about five thousand. -Yeah, yeah, so far so good. -It's a really good deal. I-- I think that's great. -It's my book. -Yeah, great. It's terrific. JENNER: Is there a way to change that around from public figure to private shadow to now? Uh... (CHUCKLES) You're a public figure, but you're not any longer a private shadow. I'm trying to think of how we could play on words on that. What-- You like-- So, in other words, the only five words that you like that I've written, you want to change? No, I'm leaving this here. -But later on... -All right, we'll look at that. -...as you say... -I'll look at that. -Okay. All right. -It may have changed around. -You know, public figure... -Okay. I get it. That's-- That's cool. Just trying to help you out, Buzz. I'll tell people, "Well, he actually wrote one line himself." No, I'm kidding. (LAUGHS) Oh, Buzz, don't go there. -It's your book! -Don't even-- If your-- My name ain't on the cover-- Don't-- Don't even go-- -It's-- It's your book. -Don't even go there. When people ask me, it's your book. -Yeah. -It is your book. I know it's my book. You're damn right. That's why I read each page like twice. (BUZZ LAUGHS) (MUSIC PLAYS) BUZZ: There you are. -How are you? -PERSONAL SHOPPER: What's up! -Good to see you. How are you? -Nice to see you. Good. How are you? I'm good. Was the traffic busy? BUZZ: Well, they closed off Fifth. Fifth? Goodness. Killer. This is fucking killer. It's all great. That's the problem. BUZZ: Oh, God, you're killing me. And it's your size. BUZZ: It's gorgeous. It's really nice. You couldn't live in that house and not be aware that something was afoot. Every closet was full to the brim of carcasses. BUZZ: This is great. -This is amazing. -Yeah, that's great. It's akin to, you know, finding, you know, your dad's Playboy. Only you would find, you know, a leather G-string. The entire house, every closet that was not claimed by me as like my little closet with my few rags, was filled to overflowing with his leatherwear goods. I mean you open it-- Clearly, I mean, truly, you would open up a drawer in a, you know, like in a sideboard in the fucking dining room (LAUGHING) and it would be filled with leather gloves. BUZZ: My mother, you know, wore leather gloves and, you know, I would go in later in life and put them on and... and wear them, but there was a f-- There was a, you know, an S&M fixation. These were- These were-- you know, you love your mother and you hate your mother and you fear your mother. And, obviously, the leather became very powerful, um, you know, sexually. (MUSIC PLAYS) PERSONAL SHOPPER: I love those! BUZZ: Yeah, they're pretty cool. PERSONAL SHOPPER: What do you think? Pretty great. How much is this? This one is close to six, I think. LISA: People think he's wealthy. He thinks he's wealthy. He goes out and spends money. He's not that weal-- I mean, look, relatively, yeah. We-- We've got enough money for the rest of our lives but... but not if you spend money the way he spends it. BUZZ: Card services. I'm about to make a charge of around 20-thousand dollars and I wanted to let you know so it can go through. (BEEPS) CALEB BISSINGER: My brother said, "Do you ever worry that you're like him?" And I was like, shit, I don't know. (CHUCKLES) I don't think so. I don't have any, uh... I don't have any of the same predilections that he does. LISA: Well, why can't you just get women's clothing that's not so fucking expensive? (CHCUKLES) That's what I want to know. Because I go in these stores and a mania overcomes me, and I see this stuff and to me it's beautiful and luxurious, and I guess I like the attention, and I look really good in it. You know, I spent much of my life not thinking I looked good. I grew up most of my life thinking I was fucking ugly. You know, to get to the psychological underpinnings of why he is-- he behaves the way he does, why he has these, um, fetishes and... um... compulsions, I mean, the-- the clothing, the buying of the clothing, it's still a compulsion. Um, like, why does he do it? And what-- wh-- what does he gain from it? I mean, from-- What makes him happy, truly? Why does that make him happy? I don't know. I mean, I don't know if he's ever examined this with a psychiatrist adequately. "I seek out every opportunity I can to cross-dress. It is a temporary fix like it is always a temporary fix. You feel a rush of adrenaline and then you feel as sad and deflated as ever, play acting when you don't want to play and you don't want to act anymore. But something is still better than nothing." (MUSIC PLAYS) BUZZ: I like dressing in women's clothing from time to time. It really excites me sexually. Now, where it comes from, why I like it, I-- I don't know. But for me, it's-- it's a sexual charge. I get a sexual rush. There's a male component, there-- there's an attraction to a female component. There's an S&M component. But, for me, it's all sexually charged. "It is incredibly exciting. The pulse quickens. The heartbeat pumps. A combination of giddiness and confidence and daring the world. Going back so many years to the age of ten, I am still trying to figure out why." BUZZ: Hello? Hello? -CHRISTIAN ANWANDER: Hello Buzz! -Hey! How are you? Good, how are you, man? I'm good, I'm good. Very nice to meet you. ANWANDER: How many looks did you bring, Buzz? BUZZ: Oh, God. I brought about six, seven. I mean, I've got all sorts of different things going. Cool. Now you want a picture first of me regular, -which would be this? -I think we shoot it afterwards or something. But I already like that. But look, I set up this silver thing. Here, I'll show you. Okay. Because you said you have a lot of leather stuff. I do have a lot of leather. So, I think this silver thing could be kind of cool, you know. BUZZ: That's good. All right. Um, you try it out. You know, you get into some looks. We try it out. We just shoot, like, full length, -crop, whatever. -Sure. -I like all the jewelry you're wearing already. -Okay And, like we'll just fuck around a little bit. -Have some fun. -All right. Good. Good -It's cool? Yeah, sometimes I wear jewelry, but I wear a lot of leather gloves, -so I'll be wearing those, too. -Leather gloves is cool, too. (MUSIC PLAYS) Trust me, if I didn't do it now, I'd be fucking going crazy. I have to do it. ANWANDER: Okay, just have a seat here for now, Buzz. -(CAMERA CLICKING) -ANWANDER: Okay, Buzz. Come back with your head. Good, Buzz. BUZZ: "What is the driving force that makes me do this beyond simply getting away with it? Am I truly gender dysphoric? Is this my therapeutic diagnosis? Am I maybe just a cross-dresser deriving some sexual high? Sometimes I wonder if dressing up is like the equivalent of having sex with myself, male and female at the same time." (MUSIC PLAYS) (LAUGHS) ANWANDER: Real good. Real good. BUZZ: To me, the gender part is irrelevant. I don't know what it means to be a man. I don't know what it means to be a woman. I just step into whatever the fuck I want to step into, because, for me, it's all about sexual expression. I feel like I'm the Angelina Jolie -of cross-dressing journalists. -(LAUGHTER) LISA: I think that it's sexually charged, you know, it's cross-dressing. It's sort of narcissistic and onanistic and it doesn't have anything to do with, you know, having sex with somebody else or being a woman, or anything like that. It's just sort of you're all-- you're all-purpose, you know, you're-- you're all-encompassing. He really pulled out the stops. And, uh, we had a little difficulty about it. The difficulty had to do with his inability to be discerning about those photographs and to decide this is-- this is flattering and this isn't. BUZZ: I know that I'm 60 years old. I mean, I don't look like fucking Kylie Jenner and I don't fucking look like Angelina Jolie, but in some of them I look really cool. I'm not defensive about them. And, you know, Lisa's saying, "Well, get rid of the ones in the cape, and look at this, if you crop the face." Well, they're not gonna fuckin' crop the face. I mean this is me. Why couldn't she just fuckin' accept it? Why couldn't she say, "I love them"? Because that's not her, and then she just doesn't fucking leave it alone. I'm not mad at him or upset with him for wanting to do all this stuff. I'm just saying, "Just don't look like a-- just don't look like a-- Look your best, you know, look your most beautiful, your most vibrant, your most vital. If-- Even if you're wearing a cape and stilettos, fuckin' look good when you're doing it, you know." I mean, that's it! BUZZ: I am who I am. Maybe I like women, maybe I like men, maybe I don't like any of them. Maybe I really want to fuck myself. I sometimes think that's what it is. I'm completely onanistic. When I have fantasies, and the fantasies are like fucking someone just like me. Who the fuck knows? I can't fuckin' think about it anymore. But I also can't be totally inside a fuckin' box and Lisa's very tolerant. I mean, you know, think about it. Most wives would say, "What the fuck is this?" It's fun. It's a fucking German magazine. Is it gonna come over here? I don't give a shit. I don't! But, you know, this is my moment, you know, in the sun. Look... it's not that easy to ha-- to be in a relationship with a cross-dressing exhibitionist. I mean, it's not impossible, and it's, you know, I mean, it's even interesting, and I love him. JENNER: I will... never... truly... feel... like a woman. -Okay? -BUZZ: Mm-hmm. It's not gonna happen. BUZZ: All right. I got a past. -Will I ever-- -Wait, you got a what? -I'm sorry. -A past. -Okay. All right. -Okay? Uh, I didn't grow up with all the experiences -that women have. -(KEYBOARD CLACKING) I... will always be and feel like a trans woman. Now you know the trans community doesn't like when people say that, right? Yeah, that's okay. I don't really care. -You don't care. -These are my feelings. -Well, you-- You're-- -Not the community's feelings. You happen to be realistic, frankly. -Yeah, um... -That's the problem. -You're being realistic. -Yeah, I know, that's-- This is how I feel. This is my book. It's not the trans community's book. Well, it's my book, too. -No, it's-- -(BOTH CHUCKLE) Is it any of your books? Is it any of you-- any of your guys' books? -(BUZZ CHUCKLES) -Um... and so I don't think I'll ever get to the point -where... -(KEYBOARD CLACKING) ...I... am totally... female. Why? Because Bruce still lives inside. BUZZ: Right. Caitlyn is living this life. Bruce lives inside. And my experiences will be different than normal women. - (MUSIC PLAYS) -(CROWD CHATTER) NEWS ANCHOR: The big story on Action News Tonight is Caitlyn Jenner in Philadelphia tonight on the campus of the University of Pennsylvania. We love you, Caitlyn! REPORTER: Caitlyn Jenner has her fans at the University of Pennsylvania. Some thirteen hundred of them, mostly students, who packed into Irvine Auditorium. They waited in lines on this cold, brisk night that snaked around the building. BUZZ: Caitlyn, you want some nuts? You want anything? JENNER: No. That's been my problem all my life. Right. Uh, hi Buzz. Hi, Caitlyn. Uh, I'm Anthony. First of all, I want to thank you for coming. I really appreciate you being here. You've been inspiring so far. So, I basically want to touch on the fact that, you know, everyone's coming out experience is different, as you touched on, and it's rarely easy. Now, uh, I came out to my dad as a teenager and it was one of the hardest things that I had to do in my life. And I will never forget his response. He looked at me, teary eyed, and he said, "Congratulations". Now, Caitlyn, you came out to your mom on the first episode of I Am Cait. I guess I just want to know, how has your relationship progressed since? Um, and if you can share a moment with her, it would mean a lot to me. JENNER: My mom was the last one I told. Her first reaction was, "Oh my, God. What did I do wrong?" (CHUCKLES) And I go, "Mom, you didn't do anything wrong, okay?" I said, '"To be honest with you, after I tell you all these things, and the secrets, and my heart is open," I said, "we can probably have a better relationship than we had before." And, you know what? For the last nine months, we have. The problem I have in that is... my father. (VOICE BREAKS) Strong guy... But never had the opportunity to talk to him about it. That'll always haunt me. Um, but I'm sure he's looking down in heaven right now and saying, "You know what? You're doing a good job. You're making a difference." And that's what I'm trying to do. Thank you. (APPLAUSE) - (MUSIC PLAYS) -(PEN SCRIBBLING) "Taking all the precautions I could to avoid detection. I'm walking with the aid of a nurse, three or four steps to a waiting car when--" JENNER: One car, one step. -The car was-- -One step, right? Yeah, one step. To a waiting car. Okay. "...when click, click, click." JENNER: I never saw the guys. Did you hear it? -Never-- -So, you didn't know? We didn't know until the next day. Okay, right. That's cool. Right. -Yeah. -Okay. "I'm driving in my car 24 hours later when the phone rings. It is Harvey..." What is it, Levin? -Levin. -"...of TMZ, the notorious gossip channel and website that revels in destroying others. I pull off to the side of the road. 'Did you just have a tracheal shave?' I am flustered. I say something I will always regret. 'I just don't like my Adam's apple'. I've just confirmed that I did have a procedure done, a procedure that will also confirm that I am likely-- that I am in the likely process of transitioning into a woman. 'Harvey, don't do this to me.' He says nothing. I go home that night. I try to sleep but wake up in the small hours, feeling more alone than ever. The same thought goes through me over and over. 'You keep a gun in the house, why not use it?'" JENNER: You don't have to deal with any of this shit. Just take yourself out. It's the easy way out, you know? And seriously thought, like, that is an option. And I'm walking up and down the hall and I'm thinking... (SIGHS) ...uh, you know, that's, like, so stupid. I could really see how trans people could be driven to that. BUZZ: Really? JENNER: Uh, I could never do that to myself, but even more importantly, to my family. JENNER: What a horrible way to end my story. First of all, I couldn't do that to my kids. Probably couldn't do it to myself either. But I don't want my story to end that way. It's just not the way I want to end my story. Although, I think that's a good way to end this story, -so why don't we, uh... -Want my story to end this way. (LAUGHTER) -Why don't we go to the audience? -All right, hit me up! Hi. Um, my name is Sophia, and my question is a little bit political, so, sorry! Um, but you have done a lot to raise awareness in the trans community, and you have also said that you support the Republican Party and that you're a Conservative. And my question was just, do you feel like they can really champion your cause or do you now want to be a Democrat -and join us? (LAUGHS) -(LAUGHTER) -JENNER: Oh, God, here we go. -(APPLAUSE) Well, I-- You know. Let's head into the polit-- You know, I have gotten more flack for being a conservative Republican than I have for being trans. -Okay, trans is like nothing. -(LAUGHTER) Okay? I know that the Democrats are better when it comes to trans issues, okay? I get that. -Okay? -(APPLAUSE) I understand that for the entire LGBT community. But the Republicans need some work and it's good if they have an ally, okay, that I can go in and help them understand these issues. JENNER: It's L-G... -T-B-Q? JENNER: Uh, L-G-B-T. B-T, not T-B. Still we want to go, L-B-G-T. L-G... (CHUCKLES) L-G-B-T-Q? JENNER: B-T-Q? -What don't we just-- -Or what? It just... -Let's just do... -We'll just ask Nick some point. L-G-B-T-Q-U-E. Yeah, you're... Yeah. -What does that mean, L-G-B-T-Q? -Yeah, we won't-- we won't-- It's ridiculous. -Yeah, I know. -What is the Q? Uh, queer. Uh, gender queer. -It's confusing. -What about L-M-N-O-P? -I don't know yet. -Yeah. (CHUCKLES) Q-R-S-T? That's horrible. I never wanna be that. Because you change gender, I don't think it means you change your core beliefs, whatever they may be. And whether we're Republican or Democrat, these are beliefs that you've had and I think that this assumption that you're going to think a certain way or be a certain way because you've changed gender is not really, uh, the case. But you can't talk any more. We have to take another question. Yeah, just briefly, to be honest with you, I still do so many of the things I used to do. Okay, Caitlyn does them. There is a transgendered pilots association worldwide with a big 93 members! Yay! of all working corporate pilots, all professional pilots, all trans. I didn't know any of this until just like a month ago. And then, they were having their annual convention out in Palm Springs, so of course, I fly out to Palm Springs. -Tell me when you're done. -(LAUGHTER) I still fool around and race cars and do all that stuff. Why not? Girls can do that too, right? Why should I miss out on all the fun stuff, -you know? -Caitlyn, next question! One second, Buzz. I'll get right with you. (LAUGHTER) Anyway... (CHUCKLES) We're like a fuckin' married couple. JENNER: Jesus, we could never be married, Buzz. -Don't even think about it. -Oh, God! -Okay? -That's like the worst nightmare -I've ever had. -Don't even think about it Buzz! (LAUGHS) Worst nightmare I've ever fucking had. All right. You didn't turn that back on, did you? (MUSIC PLAYS) I put that thing on so I can, like, actually talk. I'm pretty quick at this. No, you're not. I've only been doing it for forty fucking years. -Yeah, right. Oh, big deal. -You-- You-- You-- What do you mean, big deal? All you talk about is -the fucking decathlon for 12. -Just put the damn thing down. I've done it fucking more than three times. I actually know what I'm fuckin' doing. -All right. -Put the damn thing down. God! No, I mean, the book's hard because it's not my book. I mean, I'm a shill and I'm a good one. It's just hard. It's just a weird relationship when you really have no control. But I knew that. It's been hard emotionally, though. I don't know if it was good for me. But I spend so much fucking money and I needed the fuckin' money. I mean, I'm-- I'm-- I'm fucked up. BUZZ: Did you ever see that movie with, uh, Tom Courtney? Where he was in a play and he dressed up. ANDREW SHEA: It's called the, um, I'm gonna say The Dresser. It is called The Dresser. I sometimes feel like that. I wear this costume. I'm not sure why I wear it. I always want to wear more of it, you know. I keep pushing it. And then I get home and I take it off. But I don't want to take it off. But I do. "Sometimes I just want to literally rip the skin off me. Get out of this ridiculous costume of flesh and bone and blood that never fit me. Being Bruce is killing me. Becoming the woman inside me will kill me." I don't know. Maybe it has to do with Caitlyn Jenner. I don't really fucking know. Am I sort of projecting and saying, "Well, you know, if I became a woman, would that be the answer to my problems?" And I don't think it would be. I don't know what the fuckin' answer is. SHEA: You-- You-- You were talking in your texts about fantasies. Can I ask you? What are the fantasies? I mean, they're all dominatrix fantasies, dominating and being dominated. You know, they're all deep S&M fantasies. It just never goes away. It's been like that for fucking close to fifty years. When I'm wearing leather it's all S&M. Dominatrix are all in leather. They're soaked in leather. Is that really what I wanna be? Maybe that's my ultimate fantasy, to be one of the women that I fantasize over. Fantasies are fucking raging. They just don't go away. It's like going mad. It's a very difficult thing for a lot of people to do, is basically be happy. -But you said-- -Wake up in the morning with a smile on your face, loving yourself, not lying, being authentic to everybody else around you. It's not easy to do. -Not easy to do. -Well, you said something to me that inspired me. I mean, you know, of course, if I get divorced, they'll fucking sue you, but... -Yeah. I'm sorry. -Um, you said you know, "I don't want to die not having lived my authentic self." And that, for better or worse, -has inspired me to-- -I don't want any regrets. -Yeah. You know that. -'Cause I would have tremendous regrets. This is something I've lived with, a certain sexual appetite, for, I don't know, 55 years of my life. You hope it goes away. It's just a phase. It goes in. It goes out. But it never goes away. -Yeah, it never goes away. -No. Yeah, so how am I gonna deal with it? That's what I grapple with. BUZZ: Well, why did we come all the way out here? LISA: Well, because we wanted to go for a nice walk without a bunch of cars on the road. BUZZ: Well, you knew it was gonna be raining. I didn't know! It's not raining as hard as it was at our house. BUZZ: You know, marriage is companionship, domesticity in the best way, taking care of one another, but marriage is not particularly exciting. Let's face it. It's not. (MUSIC PLAYS) I mean, I know what I should do and I-- I think I'll do it. -I dunno. -SHEA: What should you do? You know, I should love my wife and honor my wife and be loyal to my wife, who I love. That's what I should do. LISA: Okay, now we have to rappel up. Well, this was a great idea. I'm sorry. It wasn't a great idea. We drove an hour to walk two minutes. Fifteen minutes! It wasn't. Just a little two minutes... LISA: It was 15 minutes. -BUZZ: All right? -Okay, you have to push me up. No, no, no, not that way. Let's see. I think I need this thing. BUZZ: Which way? BUZZ: You all right? Giggy, can you get up, honey? (LAUGHS) Oh, good boy, Beaks. Good boy, Beaks. Come on, baby. Come on. (LISA LAUGHS) -You can do it, Beak. If I can do it, you can do it. -BUZZ: Come on, Beaks. LISA: Come on, little guy. Up. Here, I'll help you. Hold on. (CHUCKLES) Can you help pull me up? Okay. Now hold on, hold on. Come on, put your feet up, little guy. You ready? Casey. -LISA: Okay, Dad, now. -Don't be a schlep. LISA: Hold on. -BUZZ: Ay! -LISA: Thank you. LISA: I almost pulled you down. (LAUGHS) Let's go, everybody. Come on. BUZZ: Come on, Casey. -SHEA: What will you do? -I don't know. I hope that I'll do that, but it's just, you know, it's very easier said than done. It's... Well, what can I say? Are you coming or not? Come on. (ENGINE REVS) (MUSIC PLAYS) BUZZ: (VOICEOVER) BUZZ: That's me in a, uh, body bag. Oh, mistress. I like-- I like the depri-- deprivation. You know, I-- I like the touch of her gloves. I like the smell of her gloves. I like... her gloves are into my mouth. I complete-- I can't move. I'm encased in leather, and I like the subservience. I like taking orders. I like pleasing. I think it's all the things that I tried to do with my mother. You know, that makes psychological sense to me. And the only reason I'm really talking about this is because we all have different sexualities and we're all really scared of expressing them, and I sometimes think that the issue of gender and sexuality, however you want to talk about it, has become the provenance only of transgender men and women. Well, that's not-- that's wrong. You know, heterosexual people are people. Forget the label. Deal with it all the time. And this is an aspect of my sexuality that is important to me. You know, I tried endlessly to be married, monogamous, traditional, block it out, but, you know, you're not gonna get rid of it. I-- I did not want to die without having explored what is a core sexuality. SHEA: Do you and your mistress have sex? No. Uh-uh. Never. That would-- That would ruin it. There's no fucking, but there's intimacy. This has been a part of my life one way or another for 56 years. That's the equivalent of my being a transgender man or woman. This is-- This is embedded within my soul. LISA: My problem is he's been lying. -BUZZ: So what-- You know... -I wish he didn't lie. -I've been most-- -And I catch him in a lie-- -I've been more honest -than most. -You're so bad at lying. -That's his problem. -I've been more honest than most. -He's so easy to catch. -So what do you fucking ask for if you know the fucking answer? -What do you want me to say? -Well, no. -I just want to know the truth. -You put me-- -Why? How does that help? -I want you to tell the truth. I told you a lot of truth and it didn't help. Because you make a fool of me if you don't. I'm not making a fool of you. Yes, you make a fool of me when you lie to me, because all-- everyone else knows what you're doing -or other people know what you're doing... -No. It-- -...and your wife doesn't. I hate that. -Who else knows? -Well, whoever you're doing this shit with. -No one knows. Well, all right. -But-- -But no, we had a deal, sort of. -Uh, we-- I know. -Which you couldn't actually agree to or adhere to. Well, so that was honest. I wasn't honest. I-- -It's-- It's-- W-- It's very-- -You're still not honest. You've behaved really terribly. Well, you know, I also, like... expressed who I was and who I am. You know, I just can't put that in a box. No, but... you don't have to be dishonest about it. In order for me to stay married and to feel-- have self-respect, I need to know that my husband or my-- -my-- my spouse, my mate. -No, but when you-- when you knew about my appetites, so to speak, and you knew about it and I was honest about it, you know, you still threatened to leave. No, no. When I-- When we talked about it, I said I understand, you can have an arrangement, but it was-- it would be a paid-for-service kind of thing with a-- with a professional dominatrix. Okay, I can handle that. But when you tell the kids that you're, like, that you've fallen in love with somebody, I mean, that's really fucked up. That's fucked up Buzz. I didn't say that. You said something to that effect. No, you know, I didn't. How do you know? What, do you have the fucking texts? We have a good marriage. We have a better marriage than most. You keep-- You keep saying that. Well, we do. What do you want? Truth. Truth? All right, fine. I haven't given you the truth. You haven't been forthcoming. Yeah, what else? I give you love. I give you respect. I give you honor. I give you things that you care about. I try to take care of you. I mean, I love you, you know. -Well-- -Part of buying this place was 'cause you love it here. You know, whether-- Is this the perfect place for me? I don't know. But what-- Is there a perfect place for you? -I don't think there is. -Probably not. No, because I'm always raging. If you were in New York... Well, I'm raging with restlessness. You are complicated. That's an understatement. Well, you know what? What am I gonna say? I've behaved badly. I did. It was a really rough winter and it's still rough. It's still rough, occasionally. There are ups and downs. There are trust issues for sure, more than ever. Which is a pity. But, what do I do, cut and run? I don't think so. Well, we still get along really well. Don't we? I think we do. Most of the time. (MUSIC PLAYS) BUZZ: Showtime. -JENNER: First of all... -Yeah. I know we're coming to the finish line here. You're getting a little cranky on me. You know, I-- I know-- I know -you're feeling the pressure... -I know, because-- -in getting this done. -Yeah, but I want to-- I wanna get it done right. Well, I know and we're all on the same boat. -But you get a little-- -Yeah but I-- I'm the one -who's got to do it. -A little cranky. I've got hundreds of changes from her and hundreds of changes from you and I want to get them all in. I didn't give you that many changes. Yeah, you gave a lot of changes and that's fine. -On the first read-through. -That's fine. But then I have to do it a second time, it's three or four extra steps. It just is. And you have to, at some point, you-- you know how you dedicate a book to-- to people? You're gonna have to figure that out. Can I dedicate it to you, Buzz? N-- N-- No. Well, you can. No. I will be curious to see who you de-- Well, you dedicate it to your kids, right? Buzz, it's all about you. No, none of it's about me. All right, author's note. I wonder if I had more money, would I leave him? Probably. That's really dismal. But I would miss him. See that's the thing I miss him when he's not here. (CHUCKLES) I miss him when he goes away and I love when he comes back. And then when he-- then when he starts to act badly, then I feel bad about having him around, so... I think marriages are that way. I don't know. I don't know. I've been married three times and I still don't know. And that's that. LISA: She turned out to be a pretty good dog, didn't she? (CHUCKLES) This is Casey. Casey, um, Casey is a good girl. Isn't she? She is. She's a lot like Maddy. She's not-- she's not as funny as Maddy. She doesn't play the way Maddy did. She follows me almost everywhere, though. But maybe she'll stay out here with you guys. SHEA: Are you ready to scatter Maddy's ashes? Well, I'm not. I think it would be phony. I think it would-- I mean, it... I'm not really ready because I'm... I'm so angry at Buzz for lying to me that I'm not really feeling close enough to him to do something that's that emotionally significant, honestly. Did you see she's in a-- she's in a box in his office? Did you see the box where she is? I'll bring the box out. (MUSIC PLAYS) It's got a photograph of her and Buzz in their happiest moment, both of them sleeping. So, anyway... that's where Maddy is now. And ever in our hearts. BUZZ: "Then there was the issue of the surgery. It is a complex decision under any circumstance. So, over the past 18 months I go back and forth. I lean towards having it done and then I hesitate." The big-- the big reveal of this book is she has the surgery. So, she has to have the surgery. SHEA: What do you mean by, "she has to"? Because she's gonna have it, but you can't have the book in which the big denouement is "I'm ready to do it." She's got to have it done. SHEA: And is she ready for that? Yeah. Oh, yeah. She's the one who said, "It has to be done before the book comes out." LISA: It's been totally horrific. So, I mean, if I were gonna predict what's gonna happen, he thinks it's 25 percent we're gonna get-- we're gonna... we're gonna crash and burn and I think it's 25 percent that we're gonna survive. I don't really want to be in this very crowded relationship. So, I think that we'll probably separate. Um... sort of separate but not formally and then... decide what we want to do after that, in the fall, because I want him to finish the book. I don't want to be the-- the excuse that he's not finishing the book. And I love him to death. That's the problem, really, is that without him in my life, I have no family. You know, I have no... nobody... really to love or to love me, and that's really tough and I'm talking about the kids, too. and when you're, you know, he's gonna... Gerry and Dana are gonna have a baby and I'm not gonna be able to get-- be a part of that. I'm not-- I'm gonna miss that a lot. But I also can't live a lie. So... that's the way it is. LISA: We used to watch, as a family, every Christmas, um, Love Actually. It's a very upbeat movie except for the one Alan Rickman, Emma what's-her-name, line in it, the storyline, where Rickman's character... um, is cheating on his wife and she finds out. She-- She-- She-- She's not sure, but she- she finds out because she thought that she was gonna get this necklace that she found in his-- in his jacket pocket. She thought she was going to get that for Christmas. And she says to him, you know, I mean, "What do I do? I mean, what do I do with this? Do I-- Do I-- Is it love? I mean, do I stick around or do I leave?" And he says something like, "I'm such a fool." And she says, "Well when you're a fool..." now I'm going to cry, "When you make yourself a f-- when you're a fool, you make me a fool, you make my life foolish." And that's what's happening with Buzz and me. He's making my life foolish, and I'm not gonna accept that. I'm just not. Because I'm-- I deserve better. And that's that. "We all have choices. We all make choices. It is why I have written this book. That you see through my life the pain and compromises and inevitable unhappiness that accompanies you wherever you go when you cannot make those choices, even though they are embedded in your soul. I've written this book to help us see that there is no right way to be or wrong way to be or anyway to be except whom you are. I've written this book to show what happens when roadblocks of iron are set up to prevent the most sacred part of all of us the freedom of self-expression. I've written this book because I'm not perfect, far from it, and have made my share of mistakes." (CLEARS THROAT) -"Perhaps most important--" -"I'm-- I'm free, and life is so much more simple." You gotta get that in. It's just so much more simple now. BUZZ: Okay, I will. Okay. Yeah, uh, put that in there. Flower it up a little bit. BUZZ: Yes, sir. BUZZ: "There is something about the moon tonight that is taking me in a thousand directions. Maybe it's because it's the residual of the Harvest Moon that took place the night before, a glow, an orb all its own. I think of friends I have not thanked enough. I think of my children and how I can only give them the one thing any of us can truly give, which is love. I think of successes. I think of failures. The moon rises slowly and pivots over the mountains. Its glow is hypnotic. We all look in the silence of wonder, because there is wonder in the world for all of us. You never know what will happen. You just never do. Oh, and by the way, I did have the surgery last November, two days after Thanksgiving. All of you can stop staring. The question was never going to ever go away. Anyway, now it's none of your business. It is my book and I feel like I have to be honest, which is why this is the first time and the last time I will ever speak of it again." (FANFARE) Pretty fucking good. I like that ending. You don't like it? JENNER: No, I like the ending. BUZZ: That was excellent work. We-- We got a shitload done. -Yeah, yeah. We go it. -It was great. Got a lot done. BUZZ: And thank you for your focus. ("LATE NIGHT" THEME MUSIC PLAYS) ANNOUNCER: From 30 Rockefeller Plaza in New York it's Late Night with Seth Myers! (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) ANNOUNCER: Tonight, Caitlyn Jenner! Author Buzz Bissinger! SETH MYERS: Welcome back to Late Night, everybody. We're here with Caitlyn Jenner and Buzz Bissinger, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and co-author of Caitlyn Jenner's memoir, The Secrets of My Life. Thanks very much for being here, Buzz. -Hey, it's my pleasure. -(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) JENNER: I just want you to know, with Buzz, when I first met him, uh, he had a shirt and tie on. -BUZZ: Mm-hmm. -JENNER: Yeah. Okay? Um, and then after talking for two years, literally two years from the Vanity Fair article, because he did that, to now, I've opened up his entire life. -MYERS: Yeah. -BUZZ: Yeah, right. Look at him. He is now his authentic self. MYERS: (LAUGHING) Yeah, there you go. -The real Buzz Bissinger. -I-- I feel-- Everybody needs to tune in two weeks from tonight to Late Night to see what I'm wearing. JENNER: Yeah, I know! You never know! And that's what this book is about: The pain, the horror, and then, ultimately, the exhilaration of coming to grips with yourself and I bet everyone here, one way or another, can identify with it. JENNER: Everybody's got their stuff. MYERS: Yeah. -(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) -The Secrets of My Life is available now. We'll be right back with more Late Night. (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) ("LATE NIGHT" THEME MUSIC PLAYS) (MUSIC FADES) (MUSIC PLAYS) (RAIN FALLING) SHEA: If we were to end the film today, what would you like it to say about the state of your marriage? They lived happily ever after, of course! They lived happily ever after. Not necessarily together, but they lived happily ever after. I definitely am sad about the fact that my marriage has failed. It's sad, frankly. I mean, it's, uh... sad. Buzz says that he's searching for his authentic self. That he wants to explore the part of himself that he has never really explored adequately. BUZZ: This is the way I wanna be, particularly in terms of-- of-- of dress and this is the way I want to be in terms of my sexuality. LISA: Buzz has somebody else in his life who is a dominatrix professionally. He is simply trying to live his life. I think that Buzz is happier now than he's been in a long time. You pay a price. But whether it was late fifties, early sixties, something within me said I want-- I need to live an authentic sexual self, which-- which I really had not... I'd done it in dribs and drabs, but I just felt, and this is from Caitlyn, I don't want to die not having experienced what I felt was authentic to me. At least I can say, as fucked up as I made things, as much pain as I caused, I have evolved, and I was my authentic self. You'll note that I'm not wearing a wedding ring anymore. Um, I took it off some time ago. It hasn't helped me land any, uh, sexual partners though, unfortunately. And who knows, there may be some sort of romance down the line for me after all. And I know I've said a million times that I've had so much sex that I don't really need it anymore, want anymore, but I kind of would like to do it one more time, maybe, depending on who it is, you know. LISA: (OVER RADIO) For Friday weather for the lower Columbia coastal region. Today, rain. High near fifty. Tonight, rain. Overnight low around forty-five. Saturday, rain. High near fifty. And Sunday, snow showers likely, possibly mixed with rain. High near forty. Overnight low twenty-eight. So, get out those galoshes and mittens. My name is Lisa Smith and I'll be here until eight o'clock when Joanne Rideout will bring us the news and her signature Columbia River ship report. Let's see what's going on this weekend. Author Jeanette Chaffee will be speaking at the Seaside Public Library at 1:00 p.m. tomorrow, Saturday. She's gonna share how she survived the Washington flight 840 explosion of a terrorist bomb less than 14 feet from her. It is the only time in history passengers have survived a bomb exploded aboard a commercial plane mid-air. Well, that's chilling, she lost a leg. No, no, no. She didn't. I'm sorry. I'm misreading this. Okay. Let's see. Well, Coast Community Radio's supported by its listeners and we thank you. If you're not a member yet, please join us. To find out how, you can go to coastradio.org org or you can call the station anytime during business hours. Let's listen now to two selections from Russian cellist and Astoria Music Festival mainstay Sergey Antonov's CD To Astorians with Love, Georg Goltermann's romance and Franz Shubert's adagio, and, yes, this collection really is dedicated to Astorians from Sergey with love. (CLASSICAL MUSIC PLAYS) He is so sweet. (LAUGHTER) (INDISTINCT CHATTER) (GERRY LAUGHS) (INDISTINCT CHATTER) You have the cutest little damn Bissinger nose. (CLASSICAL MUSIC CONTINUES) (MUSIC FADES) |
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