# Oh, I love to hear
the song of creation #
# The wind and the rhythm of the rain #
# Oh, the thunder,
it speaks of your power #
# But there's something
in the sound of the saints #
# I've been washed
in the roar of the ocean #
# Found peace in the echoes of a cave #
# And the trees of the field,
they clap their hands #
# But there's something
in the sound of the saints #
# From the lips of those you saved #
# A redemption song will rise #
# With a sound so full it cracks the sky #
# Whoa, we sing hallelujah #
# Whoa, we sing amen #
# Hear the sound of the saints
as we march onto Zion #
# Singing hallelujah, amen #
# Singing hallelujah, amen #
# I will hear the chorus of the angels #
# A forever symphony of praise #
# I long to hear the voice of my Savior #
# And he hears us
the sound of the saints #
# From the lips of those you saved #
# A redemption song will rise #
# Every tongue, every tribe
hear the church, your bride #
# Whoa, we sing hallelujah #
Oh, I'm running late, oh.
# Whoa, we sing amen #
# Hear the sound of the saints #
# As we march onto Zion #
# Singing hallelujah, amen #
# Singing hallelujah, amen #
# Whoa, whoa #
# Our hearts will rise #
# Our song shall be #
# Jesus Christ, our Savior King forever #
# Our hearts will rise #
# The saints will sing #
# Of Jesus Christ, our Savior King #
# Forever, forever #
# Whoa, we sing hallelujah #
# Whoa, we sing amen #
# Hear the sound of the saints
as we march onto Zion #
# Singing hallelujah, amen #
# Hallelujah, amen #
Brooke, we're all
upset, but we need to move on.
Honey, you're a junior now.
It's your make-or-break year,
so there's no room for self pity.
Can you give Marlene and I
a ride to school today?
I'm sorry, honey, I don't have time.
I have an 8:30 with Marc Shelley
at White & Wolfe.
What?! Richard, you didn't say anything!
How did you get the meeting?
It's just a meeting,
so don't get too excited.
But it could be huge.
I know!
Who's going to the meeting with you?
Hey, I got the meeting.
I know, I just think maybe you
should take Melinda or Janice.
Janice? You want me to take Janice?
- Yeah, why not?
- I'm not taking Janice.
- Rough morning?
- You know my parents.
Maybe they just need a little more time.
I don't know about that.
I'd say they're pretty over it.
My mom's making tacos tonight.
I'll let her know you're coming.
It's not like they'll miss me.
Brooke, I'm serious, honey.
You need to get focused or you could say,
"Good-bye Stanford,
hello Somewhere State."
Got it.
Yikes.
Good morning!
Morning, Grace.
I keep telling you, you
don't have to keep doing this.
Are you kidding?
This is the best part of my day, Gramps.
Pills first.
You're a good girl.
Ah, honey, you know I'm not
gonna be around here forever,
and you might wanna start
thinking about some other guy
you wanna have breakfast with.
I'll work on that.
Okay.
You know, I love the way you do
the oatmeal, but what do you say
I take you out for bacon and
eggs this morning, my treat.
Not after your last cholesterol test.
Besides, I have some papers I have
to grade before the staff meeting.
I'm 81 years old, and bacon
is not gonna be what kills me.
Nice try, you're 82.
Yeah.
Good morning.
Have a nice day.
Morning, ladies.
Morning.
Good morning.
Hey, what do you call
a teacher with no students?
Unemployed.
I got it, how about ecstatic?
You're both right. Retired!
Only 36 days to go!
You know you're gonna miss
the kids when you're gone, Rizzo.
No, Grace. That's sweet, but no, I won't.
The older I get, the more difficult
these kids are to deal with.
I totally agree.
Yesterday, I just about
snatched at Tim Webster.
That boy had me on my last nerve.
Well, I happen to think that difficult
students can be a blessing.
Grace, honey, when is this
optimism ever gonna wear off?
Bill. Bill.
Bill.
Junk mail.
Oh, man!
David, why are you always so sad?
Hey! You're back!
Why are you back?
My pastor gave me permission
to finish my doctorate at Hadleigh,
so if that's okay with you,
I'm gonna be here for awhile.
Oh, David, you are a mess.
What happened to you?
I woke up.
Okay, for 500 points,
for all the cheese, for the game.
This quote is from what document?
"We hold these truths to be self-evident,
that all men are created equal,
"that they are endowed by their Creator
with certain unalienable
rights, that among these..."
Boom, baby!
All right, Team 1, what's your answer?
Our answer is
the Declaration of Independence.
That's... correct!
Team 1 wins!
Yes!
Okay, you guys,
Monday we will examine the assertion of
individual rights through the last century.
Have a good weekend.
Brooke, are you okay?
I'm fine.
Are you sure?
Yeah, thanks.
Ms. Ryan?
I lied.
Are you sure you're being fair?
Trust me, they're over it,
and they expect me to be over it, too.
It's like to them, he never even existed.
The only thing that I know for sure is that
I'm never going to see my brother again.
Everybody's asked if there's
anything that they can do.
The truth is, no one can do anything
because the only thing that I really want
is 5 more minutes to tell my brother
how I really felt about him.
Did your brother believe
there was something more?
I don't know.
Do you?
Brooke, every person
reaches a point in their life
when they ask themselves this question.
There's nothing wrong
with you asking it, too.
You never let anything get to you.
How do you do that?
Jesus.
Hello?
How'd it go, Amy?
Michael.
It's gone.
My cancer's... it's gone.
Oh, my goodness!
That's incredible!
I know. I just... I can't believe it.
Isn't that what you prayed for?
Yes, of course. I just...
Prayer is a powerful thing,
and it turns out God has
much bigger plans for you.
You okay, Grace?
Yeah, I just can't
stop thinking about Brooke.
You know, she's searching.
She's hurting.
Yeah, that's the thing about atheism.
It doesn't take away the pain;
It just takes away the hope.
What'd you tell her?
The truth.
Now she's free to make her own choice.
Unfortunately, in this day and age,
people seem to forget that the
most basic human right of all
is a right to know Jesus.
Let's put her on the prayer list.
Prayer always seems to be
the last thing we do,
when it should be the first.
Now, how 'bout some more popcorn?
With a glycemic index
of 100, not a chance.
I swear, Grace, if you
don't start feeding me better,
I'm gonna leave you for a nursing home.
Well, that's it for me.
I'm going to bed.
Love ya.
I love you better.
Love you first.
That's unfair.
Gotcha!
Brooke, the people from
that charity place are here
to pick up your brother's things.
Can you make sure they get everything?
And don't forget to put the milk away!
- Well, that's the last of it.
- Thank you.
And, well, I was loading one
of the boxes onto the truck,
I noticed this and I thought
you might wanna keep it.
So sorry for your loss.
And so, peaceful nonviolence
comes first in India under Gandhi,
and then later, here in
the United States under Dr. King
and others as a means
of achieving civil rights.
But what makes nonviolence so radical
is its unwavering commitment
to a nonviolent approach,
not just initially, but in the
face of escalating persecution
by the opposing force.
Yes?
Isn't that sort of like what Jesus meant
when he said that we
should love our enemies?
Yes.
The writer of the Gospel of Matthew
records Jesus as saying,
"You have heard it said,
"love your neighbor and hate your enemy,
"but I tell you, love your enemies
"and pray for those who persecute you,
that you will be children
of your Father in heaven,"
which indicates a commitment
to nonviolence.
Dr. King confirmed the link,
describing his inspiration from Scripture,
saying Christ furnished
the spirit and motivation,
while Gandhi furnished the method.
Except that that didn't work.
Jesus got himself killed
and everybody knows that.
Well, so did Dr. King.
So, I guess it just depends
on how you measure success.
Both men created movements
that survive to this day,
even though both paid the ultimate price
for their commitment to their ideals.
I still wouldn't do it.
Well, not very many people
have that kind of courage.
But I, for one,
am grateful for those that do,
you know, those who stand up
for what they believe.
Have a good day.
Are you Pastor Dave?
I am.
- I'm Martin Yip.
- Nice to meet you.
My friend Josh Wheaton
said you might be able
to answer my questions about God.
Well, that definitely falls
within my job description.
How many questions have you got?
So far, 147.
Is something wrong?
No.
Josh encouraged me to write them down
and be as comprehensive as possible.
Of course he did.
Well, I'll have to thank him
next time I see him.
Come on.
So, what's your first question?
Grace, I just have to hear it from you.
Did this happen?
If you're asking whether I responded
to a student's question, yes.
If you're asking whether
her question and my answer
both referenced Jesus as it was
relevant to the history lesson
we were discussing,
again, I'd have to say yes.
Good afternoon, Ms. Wesley.
I've asked Bob Fessler to sit in,
he's the school's attorney,
to advise us on any legal issues
we might be brushing up against.
Should I have a lawyer, too?
No, I don't see the need for that.
Ms. Rizzo is present
as your union representation.
Okay.
We are here to hear
your side of the story.
Now, I understand a student in
your second period history class
asked a question about the parallels
between the teachings of Gandhi
and remarks allegedly made by Jesus.
Yes, that's correct.
And your answer incorporated
specific detailed reference
to those teachings that
included Scripture itself,
the words of Jesus.
Yes.
What were you thinking, Grace?
Do you believe your response
was in line with district policy?
Yes.
As well as in compliance
with state and federal guidelines?
Yes, sir.
Well, Ms. Wesley, unfortunately for you,
I'm fairly certain the
school board will disagree.
No, Coach, you're not hearing me.
No prayers.
No moments of silence. Nothing.
It's tradition on the field.
Not on the field, not in the locker room,
not in the parking lot for that matter.
Whatever you say.
Okay, thanks, Coach.
Come on in.
Hi, Brooke.
You wanted to see me?
Ms. Wesley is currently
under disciplinary review.
All of her classes have been
reassigned until things are settled.
I don't want you to have
any contact with her.
None whatsoever, either
on or off school property.
Do I have any say in this?
No, I've already discussed things
with your father and he agrees.
Since when does my dad care?
Brooke, the important thing for you to
remember is you've done nothing wrong.
Neither did Ms. Wesley.
All she did was answer a question.
Ms. Wesley's answer was
not in line with school policy.
Really?
I mean, aren't we allowed
to say what we believe?
When did that change?
I'm not gonna argue with you,
and I don't want you discussing
the situation with anyone.
Do you understand?
Do you understand?
Yes.
Grace?
Are you...
Tom Endler, your union-appointed attorney.
You don't look like a lawyer.
Thank you.
I'm not sure I meant that as a compliment.
I'm determined to take it as one.
Shall we sit?
So, have you defended many teachers
in disciplinary matters?
Nope, you're my first.
Just hired on from
the public defender's office.
Criminal law?
No offense, but I'm not a criminal.
Don't be so sure of that.
Your kind of case makes
everybody uncomfortable.
School boards, teachers, parents.
It makes them feel... yucky.
Yucky?
Is that a technical legal term?
You got a better word for it?
Grace, I'm gonna level with you.
Nobody wants your case.
I drew it because
I'm low man on the totem pole
in a place where
seniority means everything.
If, for whatever reason,
you're not happy with me,
you're on your own.
You're free to hire your own
attorney out of your own pocket.
Educational law isn't
exactly a common specialty.
So, what's the good news?
I don't like to lose.
And I'm willing to fight for you.
Are you a believer?
You mean a Christian?
No, but I think that's an advantage.
Why?
You're passionate about what you believe.
I mean, let's face it, it's why
you're in trouble in the first place.
But it blinds you to
the realities of procedure.
Okay.
Okay, what?
Okay, I agree to let you represent me.
- Good.
- Good.
David, are you okay?
Um, terrific.
There was a young man
in here, brilliant kid,
with no exposure to Scripture
until a few months ago.
He came in with some questions.
147 of 'em to be exact.
I feel like I've been hit
by a truck loaded with Bibles.
Big heavy ones with those thick covers.
Always be ready to give
answer as to why you believe
and the reason for your hope.
1 Peter chapter 3, verse 15.
Yes.
And where were you 4 hours ago?
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart
"and lean not on your own understanding.
"In all your ways, acknowledge him
and he will make your paths straight."
Father, I need you.
I can't do this alone.
I know that you're in control.
Please, give me the courage.
In Jesus' name, amen.
Call to order.
I assume Ms. Wesley understands
that this board has the power
to recommend any number
of disciplinary actions,
up to and including termination.
She does.
And this board should be aware
that in the event of such termination,
which we would view as both
wrongful and without cause,
she reserves all rights of redress.
I may have a solution.
There might be a way around
all of this unpleasantness
that would satisfy all parties.
A disciplinary notice in Ms. Wesley's file
stating the school board's
objections to her behavior,
a response from Ms. Wesley
confessing the inappropriateness of
and apologizing for her actions,
along with a pledge not to engage
in similar discussion
of Jesus in the future.
I'm confident that we can
move forward on that basis.
No.
Grace...
I can't.
I'd like to request a brief recess
to have a word with my client.
Excuse me.
Grace, this is exactly
what we were hoping for.
I mean, this is the part where you
say you're sorry, thank your lawyer,
go back to your classroom,
pick up your life, and move on.
- I can't do that.
- Why?
I gave an honest answer to a student's
legitimate question in history.
Grace.
Grace, you don't wanna do this.
It's the wrong decision.
Is it?
I mean, I would rather stand with God
and be judged by the world
than stand with the world
and be judged by God.
I am not gonna be afraid
to say the name "Jesus."
I know her. She's not gonna go for it.
How do we make this go away
and not get blood on our hands?
That's the easy part.
We let the ACLU do it.
They'll file suit against Ms. Wesley
and if she is found liable,
which she will be,
then we fire her for cause.
But the school district will certainly
be named as a codefendant.
We don't have the financial
wherewithal to fight that.
They've already been in touch.
They aren't interested
in punishing the school.
They want her.
Are you sure?
Trust me.
They've been dreaming of a case like this.
While Ms. Wesley apologizes
for any inconvenience
her actions may have caused,
Ms. Wesley stands by her statements,
and she does not retract or recant them,
either in full or in part.
So noted.
Having little choice, this board
recommends continued suspension,
henceforth without pay,
pending review by a court
of competent jurisdiction
to determine whether or not
Ms. Wesley violated
local, state, or federal guidelines.
This proceeding is adjourned.
The last thing we need
is a bunch of religious fanatics
protesting outside of our house.
We'll work to keep it
out of the media for now.
But next year, when you're
applying to all the colleges,
you'll be able to tell the story
of how Brooke was part of
a landmark constitutional case
concerning the separation
of church and state.
And believe me, there is not
an Ivy League admissions board
that could resist that.
And think of the other children out there,
innocent children who are subjected
to their repressive belief system.
And not forgetting
the financial opportunities.
Yes.
Ms. Wesley is an employee
of the school board.
We win in court and we
establish her misconduct
as said paid employee, well, there's
nothing that changes policy faster
than a big, expensive settlement.
We're going to prove once
and for all that God is dead.
Brooke is a minor.
As far as the court is
concerned, she has no rights.
That simply means I won't be
asking her to be a witness.
I feel supremely confident about this.
Okay.
Injunctive relief?
They're asking that you be fired,
plus revocation of your
teaching certificate.
What? How am I supposed to...
Plus attorney's fees.
Essentially, you'll lose everything.
Why are they doing this?
They want to make an example of you.
To them, your beliefs are like a disease
whose time has come and gone,
sort of like smallpox,
or polio, or the plague.
So, what do we do?
We win.
Hey, what's going on?
Brooke is exercising her right to protest.
Idiot.
Hey, shut up, loser.
At least she's standing for something.
Give me that.
Brooke, you need to stop this immediately.
Brooke, this is the last
time I'm gonna tell you.
If you don't stop this right now,
there are gonna be some consequences.
Actually, I don't think that there will,
because this is a sidewalk,
which is public property.
My dad's a lawyer.
Well, actually, this sidewalk
is on school property.
I suggest you girls aren't late for class.
Yes, ma'am.
Hey, what are you doing?
I'm just, you know, reading the paper
while my laptop goes through
my online jury orientation.
Well, shouldn't you be paying attention?
Please remember, consumption
of alcoholic beverages,
nonprescription drugs, and weapons
are prohibited in the courtroom.
Still, isn't it your civic duty?
Theoretically, yeah, but Matthew 22:14.
Oh, "Many are called, few are chosen."
Exactly.
Three hundred people show up,
they sit around for 8 hours,
and at the end of the day, they all
go home, having not been selected.
Statistically, I have a better chance
of being hit by lightning.
Gotta get some coffee.
All right.
It's called "voir dire."
It means that we get a chance to
eliminate any potential jurors
that may have a bias against you.
- Sir.
- Oh!
Thank you, sir.
So, how are you feeling?
I'm good.
All right, well, this is
a bit of an arduous process.
They bring all these jurors in.
It's gonna take the whole day,
but I think this is where
we can win the case.
All rise for the
Honorable Judge Robert Stennis.
On the order of the matter
of Thawley vs. Wesley, you may be seated.
So, it says here... what does it say?
It says you're a psychic.
Yes.
Oh, do you know who's gonna win this case?
No, don't answer that.
We're going to challenge
this juror, Your Honor.
Ms. Bailey, what's your favorite TV show?
"Pretty Little Liars."
Peremptory challenge, Your Honor.
What is your favorite TV show?
"Duck Dynasty."
Peremptory challenge, Your Honor.
"Duck Dynasty."
Ms. Smith, are you involved in any
community or charitable organizations?
Yes, the Salvation Army.
We'll accept this juror, Your Honor.
Juror number nine, you're a teacher.
I'm a retired teacher.
Ever have any disciplinary
run-ins with the administration?
Never.
Acceptable to the plaintiff, Your Honor.
Acceptable, Your Honor.
Peremptory challenge, Your Honor.
We'll take her, Your Honor.
Thank you, Mr. Cherry.
Preemptive challenge, Your Honor.
Number two just screams Marine.
I don't want him.
That would mean
blowing our last challenge.
Well, we have no choice.
I mean, what part of "God, Country,
and Corps" do you wanna put on that jury?
What was your last paid position?
Artillery Forward Observer,
United States Marine Corps.
Peremptory challenge, Your Honor.
Thank you.
Your Honor, we'd like
to challenge for cause.
Why is that?
Oh, Your Honor, the man's
an ordained minister.
Need I say more?
The juror is excused.
Objection, Your Honor.
Basis, Mr. Endler?
Discriminatory, Your Honor.
Peremptory challenges can not
be used to discriminate
against a certain class
of juror based on race,
ethnic background, religion, or gender.
And the fact that religious belief is
tangential to this case doesn't change that.
Upon further reflection, I find
the respondent's assertion is correct.
Sustained.
You're not her pastor, are you?
No, Your Honor.
Your Honor, I must protest here.
Mr. Kane, now, you had
a set number of peremptory challenges,
all of which you have used.
Therefore, it's up to opposing counsel.
We accept him, Your Honor.
Welcome to the jury, sir.
Henceforth, juror number twelve.
I hope you enjoy your
service to the community.
Better chance of
being struck by lightning.
It amazes me how we,
as human beings, think.
When I was battling for my life,
I was willing to hold onto
anything, including God,
even though I really didn't believe
in him until that moment.
I was convinced that I felt him,
but now that I'm officially in remission,
I find myself questioning everything.
So, effective immediately,
this blog is the personal diary
of one woman's exploration of faith
on her own terms, cancer-free.
Hey, Martin. How's it going?
Very good, Pastor Dave.
Oh, please.
You sure?
Well, it seems that for
every question you answered,
three or four more questions spring up.
Yeah, but that's a good thing, right?
It's like what Einstein
said about science.
Picture what you know
like the light of a candle.
As the circle of knowledge expands,
so does the circumference
of darkness around it.
So, I'm actually learning,
even though I might not feel like it.
Yes, exactly.
Well, I've been studying the Beatitudes.
They're very hard, one might say
impossible, to follow completely.
Here in Luke's account, Jesus says,
"Do unto others as you
have them do unto you."
But how is that possible?
How can I react to
the needs of everyone else
the same as my own, even for one day,
let alone my whole life?
And how can I reconcile my inability
to do so with Scripture?
Yeah, those are good questions.
Okay, scoot over.
What is that, Luke?
Yes, 6:20.
"And Jesus said to his disciples,
'You who are poor are blessed
"'because the kingdom of God is yours.
"'You who are now hungry are blessed
'because you will be filled.
"'You who now weep are blessed
because you will laugh.
"'You are blessed when people
hate you, when they exclude you,
"'insult you,
and slander your name as evil
because of the Son of Man."'
You can't win.
Thanks.
I'll take that under advisement.
Oh, come on, you know I'm right.
I mean, why do it?
Why go through this whole exercise, huh?
Here, thanks.
You know, I looked up your history.
You're better than this.
You were third in your
class at Stanford Law.
You clerked for a judge
on the Ninth Circuit.
Why you slumming like this?
Maybe I believe that people
that don't do anything wrong
shouldn't suffer at the hands of the law.
You know what hate is, Tom?
I'm not talking about the fairy tale
stuff, I mean real hate.
I hate what people
like your client stand for
and what they're doing to our society,
and Stennis does, too,
even if he doesn't admit it.
Well, the jury doesn't hate her.
Ah, but that's the secret, Tommy.
They don't need to hate her.
They just need to see a tiny
flaw in her, a half truth,
a small inconsistency,
just a little bit of doubt,
and they'll find against her.
Nice shoes.
You ready?
Come on.
Congress shall make
no law respecting an establishment
of religion or prohibiting
the free exercise thereof.
The first half of this passage
is known as the establishment clause.
The second half is known as
the free exercise clause.
Now, there has been an ongoing debate
about what the role
of government should be,
because in practice, these two provisions
are often in conflict,
which is what brings us here today.
In the matter of Thawley vs. Wesley,
is the plaintiff prepared to
make its opening statement?
We are, Your Honor.
Then proceed.
Ladies and gentlemen,
in a jury of this size,
I'm imagining that there are,
probably among your ranks,
a few Christians.
Hopefully practicing ones,
and that's a good thing, that's fine,
because Christianity is not on trial here,
even though my opponent will
try to convince you that it is.
Nor is faith on trial.
Only Ms. Wesley is on trial here today.
Now, ask any 4th grader
and they're probably
familiar with the phrase,
"Separation of church and state,"
and that is guaranteed
to us under our laws.
The plaintiffs
are the parents of a student
in Ms. Wesley's class
who was subjected to hearing
the teachings of Jesus Christ
being favorably compared
to the teachings of Mahatma Gandhi.
We all know that Jesus is part
of a particular religious tradition.
These parents, who are trying to raise
their daughter to be a free thinker,
free of any religious dogma,
are wholly offended by what
went on in that classroom.
And she, reciting the words
that were allegedly attributed to Jesus,
who allegedly lived 2,000 years ago,
gave a clear and compelling indication
of what she believes, what she supports,
what she endorses.
Now, let me put it this way.
I don't mean to offend anyone
who may be a Muslim here,
and I do not want to slight
the prophet of Islam,
but if you were to ask me a
question concerning the Quran,
the sacred text of Islam,
and I could come up with the answer
with great speed and accuracy,
and I could quote
the proper surah, or chapter,
then it would be reasonable
for you to infer
that I was not only a follower of Islam,
but that I considered it to be superior
to all other forms of religion.
If I did this in a house of
worship, that would be fine.
But if I did it in an 11th grade
classroom in a public school,
that would be preaching, not teaching.
So, why? Why in the world
are we here today?
Why? Because Ms. Wesley
refused to apologize,
and that means that her true motivation
in that moment in her classroom
was to take an innocent question
and turn it into an opportunity
to preach, not teach.
If we grant Ms. Wesley
the right to do that,
and by extension, everyone else,
to violate the law based solely
on our own private beliefs,
then our society will crumble.
I believe that.
So, I implore you, please
do not set this precedent.
Do not.
The future of our republic depends on it.
What's going on?
Brooke is exercising her right to protest.
Brooke, I need you
to stop this immediately.
Brooke, this is the last time
I'm gonna tell you.
If you don't stop right now,
there are gonna be consequences.
Hey, Aunt Amy.
Hey, Marlene.
Yeah, I just saw the video,
what's going on?
So, you remember my friend, Brooke?
Yeah.
Well, she got a teacher in trouble
for asking her about Jesus.
What?
Now she's not even
supposed to talk about it
and we can't even cover it
in our school paper.
Is there any way that
I could meet with her?
- The teacher?
- No, Brooke.
Mr. Endler, your opening statement.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury,
I have here a copy of the Constitution
of the United States of America
and its Bill of Rights,
arguably the two most important documents
in the history of our great nation.
But despite Mr. Kane's
impassioned rhetoric,
you know what you won't find in there
no matter how hard you look?
The phrase "Separation
of church and state."
That's right.
It's not in there, never has been,
because that phrase comes from a letter
written by Thomas Jefferson.
Now, ironically, Jefferson was writing
to a Baptist congregation, ensuring them
that they would always have the right
to believe as they wished,
free of government interference.
But lately, that phrase has
been taken out of context
and twisted and contorted
to mean the exact opposite.
And one morning early this year,
my client, Ms. Wesley,
she woke up as usual, she drove
to work at her job as a teacher
at Martin Luther King High School,
a place where she was Teacher of the Year.
Her lesson plan
for second period A.P. history
that morning, it didn't include
any mention of God or Jesus.
She didn't have a Bible sitting
on her desk in plain view.
She didn't start her class
with a blessing.
She didn't lead her students in prayer.
No, all she did was answer a question,
because that is what she gets paid to do.
Now, Mr. Kane will insist loudly and often
that faith isn't on trial here,
but that is exactly what is on trial,
the most basic human right
of all, the right to believe.
Mr. Kane's afraid.
He's afraid that you, the jury,
the touchstone of common sense,
might not agree with
his tortured interpretation
of the Constitution,
that you might understand
that my client has rights,
rights that trump his agenda,
and that in realizing that
you will hold as I do
that my client is guilty of no wrongdoing
and innocent of any
and all claims against her.
Thank you very much.
And now it's become this huge deal,
and all she did was answer my question.
Why do you think your
parents are doing this?
Because my mom thinks
it'll help me get into Stanford
or one of the Ivys, and my dad
thinks it'll help pay for it.
And nobody's asked you what you think?
No.
So, are you gonna help her?
I don't know.
I would at least like to talk to her.
Maybe I could help get
her story out there.
Great, because everyone's
telling me to stay out of it.
Do you always do what you're told?
What is your heart telling you to do?
Mr. Thawley, how did
you feel when you found out
that your daughter had been exposed
to faith-based teachings in class?
Well, it felt like we had been violated.
I mean, this was supposed to be
a history class, not Sunday school.
My wife and I are free thinkers.
We're rationalists.
We believe in a non-theistic world view,
and that's how we were trying
to raise our daughter.
And did you discuss this
incident with your daughter?
Well, I tried, but it's hard discussing
anything with kids that age.
She's 16.
Some of you know what that's like.
It's hard enough trying to
maintain credibility as a parent
without a teacher jumping in
and arguing against your position.
Now, we trust the school
not to overstep its bounds
in terms of what is
and what isn't appropriate.
Is that too much to ask?
No. Thank you, Mr. Thawley.
That's all, Your Honor.
Your witness, Mr. Endler.
No questions, Your Honor.
Next witness, Mr. Kane.
Mrs. Rizzo, did Ms. Wesley
talk about faith issues
on the school campus?
All the time.
Everybody knows she's a Christian.
I don't think she'd chew a stick
of gum without praying first.
It makes everyone feel awkward.
Thank you.
No further questions, Your Honor.
Your witness, Mr. Endler.
Mrs. Rizzo, you stated that Ms. Wesley
talks about her faith all the time.
I'm curious, can you
give me a specific instance?
Well, not off the top of my head.
Well, has she, as far as you're aware,
ever started her class with a prayer?
No.
Has she ever asked anyone
in the teacher's lounge to pray with her?
No.
Has she ever asked you
personally to pray with her?
Objection, Your Honor.
- No.
- Cumulative.
The question has effectively
been asked and answered.
Your Honor, Mrs. Rizzo's
sworn testimony states
that Ms. Wesley talked
about her faith all the time,
yet she's failed to cite
a single instance.
I'm merely trying to discover
some basis for her opinion.
Sustained.
Mr. Endler, we're done with
this line of questioning.
Mrs. Rizzo,
in the school's initial inquiry
into this matter, you were
Ms. Wesley's representative
on behalf of the teacher's
union, were you not?
Yes.
And did you ever consider
that your disapproval
of her faith might taint your ability
to represent her properly?
Objection, speculative.
Sustained.
God bless you.
Careful, or you might end up on trial.
Mr. Endler!
No further questions, Your Honor.
So, when are these religious zealots
going to realize it's not only disrespectful
of them to push their beliefs on others,
in this case, it's actually illegal?
This woman, this fundamentalist,
used her position of influence
as a teacher to fill the minds
of our children with nonsense.
If you ask me, the religious extremists
we need to worry about
are the hard-core Christians.
How about we show up in force
and show Ms. Wesley just exactly
what we think of her proselytizing?
Principal Kinney, what was
the school district's final determination?
Well, Grace has been suspended without pay
pending the result of this trial.
Isn't it rather unusual,
leaving it up to a third party
to determine whether Ms. Wesley is fired?
We've decided to accept
the court's interpretation
of wrongdoing either way.
No questions, Your Honor.
Your witness, Mr. Endler.
Ms. Kinney, can you tell me
the full name of the high school
over which you preside?
Doctor Martin Luther King Junior
Memorial High School.
I noticed that the name fails to mention
Dr. King's title as Reverend Doctor.
It's his work in the field of civil rights
that we prefer to highlight.
But that's the whole point.
You consider his faith and politics
to be separate things,
but I don't,
and he certainly wouldn't have.
Objection, Your Honor.
Counsel is testifying.
Sustained.
Jury's instructed to ignore
Mr. Endler's preceding remarks.
Ms. Kinney, are you familiar with
Dr. King's letter from the Birmingham Jail?
Yes, it's a seminal
piece of civil rights history.
In that letter Dr. King makes numerous
faith-based references, does he not?
Offhand, I don't recall.
Allow me to refresh your memory.
He cites the example of the three youths
from the book of Daniel who were
tossed into the fiery furnace
by King Nebuchadnezzar because
they refused to worship him.
Elsewhere, he urges action with Jesus,
and here I quote, "Extremist love."
And in his speech,
"I've Been to the Mountaintop,"
he stated that he just wanted
to do God's will.
Is this coming back to you now?
Yes.
In your opinion, would Ms. Wesley,
had she chosen to do so,
have been allowed to present
the examples that I just
mentioned in her class?
Objection, speculative.
I'm going to allow it.
Overruled.
Witness may answer.
No.
If it were up to me, she would
not have been allowed.
Why not?
Because those examples
are too closely associated with faith.
In other words, they're facts,
but they're just facts that are
too dangerous for discussion?
The word I would use would be
"controversial."
But aren't facts just facts?
I mean, there's nothing controversial
about 2 plus 2 equaling 4,
or E equals MC squared,
or the date man landed on the moon.
So, why the controversy about these facts?
I think the fact that we're all
here today speaks for itself.
Thank you for your honesty.
One last question.
In your orientation
at the beginning of the semester,
your memo to the staff stressed
diversity and tolerance, did it not?
Yes.
Well, would it be fair to say
that except for Christianity,
all other forms of diversity are welcome?
Objection!
Your Honor!
I will withdraw the question.
Mr. Endler, you seem to have a penchant
for injecting commentary
where it doesn't belong.
You would do well to avoid
further provocation of this court.
I apologize, Your Honor.
I'll look to curtail it in the future.
Redirect, Your Honor?
Ms. Kinney, I understand
that you attended a service
at Ms. Wesley's church a short while ago.
Is that correct?
Yes, that's correct.
It was an event honoring several
students who attend that church
for their community service.
Mm-hmm.
And who was it that
invited you to that service?
Grace Wesley.
I see.
And where were you when
this invitation was extended?
At my office.
On school grounds?
Yes.
During work hours?
Yes.
Thank you.
Oh, one last question.
Is it true that Ms. Wesley
accepts donations
for a faith-based charity, Convoy of Hope,
right there in the classroom?
Yes, she does.
Thank you again.
No further questions, Your Honor.
You may step down, Mrs. Kinney.
Court's adjourned.
Grace, can I ask you a question,
off the record?
Sure.
These people, they're
looking to destroy you,
and I don't just mean financially.
Do you think it's worth it?
I hope so.
So do I.
Fishy and cheesy at the same time.
David, this tuna melt is exquisite.
Oh, yeah, exquisite.
It's the provolone.
That was my idea.
I love what it does
to the flavor of the fish.
Don't I know you?
You're from Blaze's Car Rental, right?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that gig didn't
really work out for me.
I don't think customer
service is my forte.
So, you decided to become a waiter?
Well, this is where
I do my dinner theatre.
In the mornings I serve up croissants.
In the evenings I serve up Chekhov.
Oh.
Hey, listen, sorry about
the whole car not working thing.
It's okay.
I learned my lesson.
He bought a Prius.
Starts every time.
Oh!
- Same guy.
- Same guy.
Amazing.
Gentlemen, I don't wanna
spoil your brunch,
but I'm hearing from a friend of mine
in the prosecutor's office
about a subpoena
that just came down
demanding that we submit
copies of our sermons for
the last 3 months for review.
Can they do that?
They tried it in Houston.
So, now the government can determine what
we can and can't preach at our churches?
Let's not overreact.
I'm sure there's no ill intent here.
Unfortunately, I think
this is just the beginning.
We've been ignoring it, and now
we're paying the price for it.
Well, don't forget the silent majority.
They're out there.
They just need something to stand for.
Well I'll admit there's pressure, but I
think with time this will correct itself.
Forgive me, but I think you're wrong.
I'm serving on a jury in a case right
now that touches on these issues.
And of course, I'm not allowed
to talk about it,
but I mean, the one thing
that it's convinced me of
is that if we stand by and do nothing,
pressure that we're feeling today
is gonna mean persecution tomorrow.
What makes you so sure?
Speed of change,
viciousness of the opposition.
The message of the gospel
has us standing in the way
of a lot of things
that powerful people want,
and our resistance to change that message
because it's not ours to change
has made us a lot of enemies.
Whether we admit it or not, we're at war,
the war of Ephesians 6,
not against flesh and blood,
but against the powers of this world,
against the spiritual forces
in the heavenly realms.
And if we insist on denying that,
then we've already lost.
I brought a giant bag of Chinese food
and a briefcase full of files.
I say we eat first.
I say you're a genius.
Does Walter want to join us?
Oh, no. He's hiding in his room.
How come?
He's treating this like it's a date,
which should give you some indication
of what my social life is like.
Don't worry, I won't tell.
Falls under attorney-client privilege.
So, is this what you always saw
yourself doing, the lawyer thing?
No, um...
I wanted to be Batman.
How 'bout you?
Your parents have you all set
to go to the convent?
Actually, there were no bedtime
prayers in my childhood.
I was raised in a house
without much faith.
When did you decide to become a Christian?
I was walking home from class.
It was dark, and I was
struggling with a lot of things.
And I turned the corner, and right
there in front of me was this church.
It had this old sign out front,
but it just stopped me in my tracks.
And the sign... the sign said,
"Who do you say that I am?"
And as I read it, I could hear
the Lord speak to me.
You know, I couldn't get that question
out of my head for days,
so that was the start
of a journey that didn't end
until I found the answer.
# Nearer, my God, to thee #
# Nearer to thee #
That was beautiful.
Forgive me, but I did
not know anyone was here.
Oh, no. Please don't apologize.
I didn't mean to interrupt.
I just didn't know where else to go.
I'm Martin.
I'm Brooke.
Do you think I could
ask you a few questions?
That would be fine.
Good, 'cause I have a lot.
He doesn't make mistakes.
But I thought you proved bias.
I mean, Principal Kinney and Mrs. Rizzo?
Those were just jabs.
We need a knockout punch.
Why did you feel compelled
to bring Jesus up in history class?
Why shouldn't I have?
Grace, I'm not here to debate with you
what you think your rights were as...
No, Tom, listen.
This isn't about faith.
This is about history.
Okay, maybe I'm wrong here.
I'm not the law expert,
but I think they've missed the point.
I'm not sure I follow.
Their whole attack,
it's about me preaching in class,
but I didn't do that.
They're saying you did.
You cited Scripture.
You talked about Jesus'
teachings just like
they were any other verifiable fact.
But what if they're just that?
I mean, just because certain
facts happen to be recorded
in the Bible doesn't mean
they stop being facts.
We can separate the history-based elements
of Jesus' life from
the faith-based element.
I mean, in my classroom,
I didn't talk about Jesus
as my Lord and Savior.
You know, all I did was
comment on quotations
attributed to Jesus, the man,
and I did it in A.P. History.
There was nothing wrong with the context.
And any rule saying that you can talk about
any historic figure that ever existed
except Jesus is discriminatory.
They can't institute that.
And every credible historian
admits that Jesus existed.
I mean, there's just too much evidence.
Grace, I love it.
This is our defense.
Jesus as a historic figure,
just like everyone else.
And you know what?
Kane will never see it coming.
You got some reading to do.
He just had so many notes
written in the margins
that for the first time I felt like I was
truly getting to know my brother.
Like God gave me the extra 5 minutes
that I so desperately needed with him.
I just don't understand why he
never told me about his faith.
Sharing one's faith with family,
especially not knowing
how they will react,
can be difficult.
Count our struggles as blessings, right?
That is exactly right.
There are more than 5 minutes
awaiting you and your brother.
John chapter 11, verse 25 to 26 says,
"I am the resurrection and the life.
"He who believes in me
will live even if he dies.
"And whoever lives and believes in me
will never die."
Do you believe this?
I do.
Then invite him into your heart
and make him the Lord of your life.
Dear Lord, I'm not quite sure what to say,
but thank you for dying
on the cross for me.
Please forgive me of my sin.
Jesus, please come into my life,
and I will follow you
as my Lord and Savior.
Amen.
Thank you.
Can you state your name
and occupation for the court?
My name is Lee Strobel.
I'm a professor of Christian thought
at Houston Baptist University
and the author of more than
20 books about Christianity,
including "The Case for Christ."
Can you help me prove
the existence of Jesus Christ?
Absolutely, beyond any reasonable doubt.
How so?
Actually, this court already affirmed it
when we were called into session
and the date was given.
Our calendar has been split
between B.C. and A.D.
based on the birth of Jesus,
which is quite a feat if he never existed.
Beyond that, historian Gary Habermas
lists 39 ancient sources for Jesus,
from which he enumerates
more than 100 reported facts
about his life, teachings,
crucifixion, and resurrection.
In fact, the historical evidence
for Jesus' execution
is so strong that one of the most famous
New Testament scholars in the world,
Gerd Ludemann of Germany,
said, "Jesus' death
as a consequence of crucifixion
is indisputable."
Now, there are very few facts
in ancient history
that a critical historian
like Gerd Ludemann
will say is indisputable.
One of them is the execution
of Jesus Christ.
Forgive me, but you're
a believer, are you not?
A Bible-believing Christian?
Guilty as charged.
So, wouldn't this tend
to inflate your estimate
of the probability that Jesus existed.
No, because we don't need to inflate it.
We can reconstruct
the basic facts about Jesus
just from non-Christian sources
outside the Bible.
And Gerd Ludemann is an atheist.
In other words, we can prove
the existence of Jesus
solely by using sources
that have absolutely
no sympathy toward Christianity.
As the agnostic historian,
Bart Ehrman, says,
"Jesus did exist,
whether we like it or not."
I put it this way:
Denying the existence of Jesus
doesn't make him go away.
It merely proves that no amount
of evidence will convince you.
Thank you.
No further questions, Your Honor.
Mr. Kane, your witness.
No questions, Your Honor.
That's lunch.
We'll recess until 2 p.m.
Can I help you with something?
Oh, hi.
I was looking for Pastor Dave.
My friend, Mina, she said
I should come see him.
She said he's real easy to talk to.
He won't be back until after next week.
Oh, okay. Thanks.
Sweeping is something I only do part-time.
I enjoy it because it helps me think.
But if you need to talk,
I'm actually a pastor.
It's been 3 weeks since my doctors told me
I was in remission.
Oh, Amy, that's wonderful.
It is.
Yes.
But even though I've been given this gift,
I've been questioning my faith.
I know Jesus existed,
but I'm struggling to believe.
Actually, I think you already do believe,
and the proof is you're
not willing to put God
back on the shelf
now that your cancer is gone.
He won't let you dismiss
the thought of him.
Part of you senses Jesus' presence
and wishes that he would just
go away and leave you alone.
Actually, now that you mention it,
I had thought of that.
Look, he delights in using us
in ways we never dreamed of
and giving us things that we
never even knew we wanted.
We just have to give him a chance.
Will you?
Thank you.
Hi, I'm Reverend David Hill.
Sermon transcripts, right?
- Yes.
- Just put it right there.
They've been coming in all morning.
I'm sure they did what
they thought was best.
That's it?
Those are your entire sermons
for the past 120 days?
No, that's a letter that I wrote explaining
why I'm not going to hand them in.
Excuse me?
I know it's unusual for a Christian pastor
to willfully resist a subpoena
issued by a lawful government authority,
and it's even more unusual
that he should feel compelled to do so.
Are you sure you wanna do that?
It's something that I have to do.
You know the old saying, "The squeaky
wheel gets the grease," don't you?
I have another saying:
"A nail that sticks up
gets hammered down."
Susan, what I'm seeing
is a teacher who answered
a student's question
to the best of her ability.
Amy, it sounds like you're taking
the side of Grace Wesley here.
Surely, you see that she used
the student's question
to promote her Christian agenda.
Actually, Susan, that's not how I see it.
I believe Ms. Wesley's entitled
to her own opinions,
and that includes in the classroom.
She didn't try to convert these
students, in fact...
Amy, I must say,
I'm shocked at what seems to be
a complete 180 from the typical
stance of your plot.
Just look at the facts
of this case for a minute.
She clearly infringed on
the rights of her students.
Marlene?
I have an idea.
Come over as soon as you can, okay?
You look terrible.
You really ought to ask to be excused.
No, no, I'm fine.
I really need to be here.
All rise.
You may be seated.
Juror number 12, is there
something you'd like to say?
I'm sorry, Your Honor, I gotta...
Bailiff, call paramedics.
Sir.
Well, I guess that proves there is no God,
'cause they just lost the only juror
they could count on.
Any dizziness?
- Yeah.
- Vomiting?
About a half hour ago.
Does this hurt? How 'bout this?
I hope you're not
too attached to your appendix.
Brooke! Marlene.
It's not looking good in there.
Ms. Marshall, are you prepared to fulfill
your duties as an alternate?
Yes, I am, Your Honor.
Mr. Endler, next witness.
Would you state your name
and experience for the record?
My name is James Warner Wallace.
I'm a retired homicide detective
from Los Angeles County.
And are you the author of the
book, "Cold Case Christianity"?
Yes, I am.
Can you share the subtitle of
the book with the court, please?
"A Homicide Detective
Investigates the Claims of the Gospels."
Would I be correct in saying
that your duties as a homicide detective
include investigating cold case homicides?
Yes, that is and was my expertise.
Don't most of those cases
get solved with DNA evidence?
Objection, leading.
And counsel is
testifying again, Your Honor.
I'll rephrase.
How many of your cold cases were solved
through the use of DNA evidence?
None. Not one.
That's often popular on TV, but our
departments never had the good fortune
of solving a cold case with DNA.
Well, how do most
of these cases get solved?
Often by examining eyewitness claims,
witness claims that were
made many years earlier,
even though often our
witnesses are now deceased.
Forgive my ignorance, Mr. Wallace,
but how is that possible?
Well, we have a number
of techniques we can use
to test the reliability of an eyewitness,
including something called
forensic statement analysis.
That's a discipline where we scrutinize
the statements of eyewitnesses
and looking at what
they choose to minimize,
what they choose to emphasize,
what they omit altogether,
how they expand time or contract time.
And when we examine these
kinds of eyewitness accounts,
we can usually tell who's lying,
and who's telling the truth,
and even who the guilty party is.
And did you apply this skill set anytime
outside of your official capacity?
Yes, I applied my expertise
to the death of Jesus
at the hands of the Romans,
and I actually looked at the gospels
as I would any other set
of forensic statements.
Within a matter of months,
I determined that the four gospels,
written from different perspectives,
contained the eyewitness
accounts about the life,
ministry, death,
and resurrection of Jesus.
And did you consider that the four
accounts might be part of a conspiracy,
designed to promote belief
in a fledgling faith?
Yeah, you have to consider conspiracies
when assessing eyewitness accounts,
but successful conspiracies typically
involve the fewest number of people.
It's a lot easier for 2 people to lie
and keep a secret than it is for 20.
And that's really the problem
with the conspiracy theories
related to the apostles
in the 1st century.
There are just far too many of them
trying to hold this conspiracy
for far too long a period of time.
And far worse, they're experiencing
pressure like no other,
unimaginable pressure.
Every one of these folks
was tortured and died
for what they claimed to see, and none
of them ever recanted their story.
So, the idea that this is a
conspiracy in the 1 st century
is just really unreasonable.
Instead, what I see in the gospels
is something I call unintended
eyewitness support statement.
What's an unintended
eyewitness support statement?
If I can borrow your Bible?
Let me go to the Gospel of Matthew
for an example of this.
I'll start with a passage
in which Jesus is in front
of Caiaphas at a hearing.
It says here, "Then they spit in his face
"and struck him with their fists.
"Others slapped him and said,
'Prophesy to us, Christ. Who hit you?"'
Now, that seems like
a very simple request,
given that the people who hit him
are standing right in front of him.
This makes no sense.
Why would it be prophecy to be
able to tell you who hit you?
But it's not until you read Luke
that you get an answer to this.
He says, "The men who were guarding Jesus
"began mocking and beating him.
"They blindfolded him and demanded,
'Prophesy, who hit you?"'
So, now we know why this was a challenge,
'cause Luke tells us the
thing that Matthew left out,
that he was actually blindfolded
at the time this took place.
This is very common, this kind of
unintentional eyewitness support
that fills in a detail
that the first witness left out.
After years of scrutinizing
these gospels using the template
that I use to determine
if an eyewitness is reliable,
I concluded that the
four gospels in this book
contained the reliable accounts
of the actual words of Jesus.
And that's to include the statements
quoted by Ms. Wesley in her class?
Absolutely.
Thank you, Detective.
Your witness.
Detective Wallace,
I'm not gonna try to match
biblical knowledge with you.
But isn't it true that these
gospel accounts vary widely
in what they say, that there are numerous
discrepancies between these accounts?
Absolutely, but that's
exactly what we should expect.
I don't quite understand that.
Well, reliable eyewitness
accounts always differ slightly
in the way they recall the story.
They're coming to it from different
geographic perspectives, their history,
even where they are located in the room.
When I examined the gospels,
I was trying to determine
if these were accurate, reliable accounts,
in spite of any differences
there might be between the accounts.
Ah, and as a devout Christian,
you feel you succeeded?
Ah, Mr. Kane.
I think you misunderstand me.
When I began this study,
I was a devout atheist.
I began examining the gospels
as a committed skeptic,
not as a believer.
You see, I wasn't raised
in a Christian environment,
although I do think I have an unusually
high regard for the value of evidence.
I'm not a Christian
because I was raised that way
or because I hoped it would satisfy
some need or accomplish some goal.
I'm simply a Christian
because it's evidentially true.
Motion to strike, Your Honor.
Granted.
Jury's instructed to ignore
Detective Wallace's last remark.
No further questions.
Witness is excused.
Thank you, Your Honor.
Mr. Endler, your next witness.
We don't have one, Your Honor.
She didn't do anything wrong;
She was just trying to help me!
Brooke!
Order! I'll have order!
Young lady, your youth is no excuse
for disturbing the sanctity of this court.
But this case is supposed to be about me.
I'm almost 17 years old;
It's not like I can't think for myself.
I just don't have the right to speak.
- Brooke, what are you doing?
- Not unless you are called
as a witness, young lady.
If I put her on the stand,
what am I gonna hear?
That she asked a question
and I answered it.
Your Honor, we'd like to call
Ms. Brooke Thawley to the stand.
Objection, Your Honor!
Ms. Thawley is a minor.
Her parents do not want her subjected
to the emotional pressure
of testifying against her own teacher.
Ms. Thawley, are you willing
to testify on your own behalf?
Yes, Your Honor.
And do you understand
that you will have to answer
all the questions truthfully,
regardless of your feelings,
and that failure to do so
is punishable by law?
Yes, Your Honor.
I'm not afraid of telling the truth.
I'm only afraid
of not being able to tell it.
I will allow this witness.
Objection overruled.
Brooke, in class, who first
brought up the name "Jesus,"
you or Ms. Wesley?
I did.
As part of a question?
Yes.
And at that time, did you feel like you
were asking a faith-based question?
No, not really.
It just seemed like
Martin Luther King and Jesus
were saying similar things,
so I brought it up.
And did you consider Ms. Wesley's response
to be a reasonable answer
to your question?
Yes.
So, if I'm hearing you correctly,
you asked a question in history
class about a historical figure,
and your history teacher answered it
in a sensible manner?
Yes.
Thank you.
Your witness.
Ms. Thawley, do you like Ms. Wesley?
Yes.
Would you say she's your favorite teacher?
Yes, absolutely.
Do you think Ms. Wesley likes you?
Objection, speculative.
Your Honor, speaks to the state of mind
of the witness, if not Ms. Wesley herself.
I'm gonna allow it. Overruled.
You may answer the question.
Yes, I think she likes me.
Uh-huh.
Do you think there's any possibility
that in answering your question,
she may have tried to share
some of the ideas of her faith,
a faith that she holds most dear?
No, uh, no, not at that moment.
Not at that moment.
You mean to say that
there were other moments
in which she talked to you
about her faith?
Hmm? Ms. Thawley, please?
You must answer the question, Ms. Thawley.
Yes, but it was outside of school
and it was only one time.
Move to strike.
Your Honor, this is irrelevant.
No actions off the school
campus are at issue here.
Denied.
Mr. Kane seems to have
found a loose thread.
I'm inclined to let him pull it.
See what unravels.
Thank you, Your Honor.
Why didn't you tell me about this?
You didn't ask,
and I didn't think it mattered.
Brooke, you realize that
you have to tell the truth here.
You understand that, correct?
Yes.
So, what did you mean when you said
that you had talks
about faith outside of school?
My brother died in an accident
6 months ago.
Ms. Wesley noticed that
I wasn't doing so well,
so she asked me if everything
was all right after class.
Mm-hmm.
I told her I was fine, but I went
and found her later on at the coffee shop.
And did Ms. Wesley refer you
to any kind of psychological counseling?
No.
Did she suggest that perhaps
she wasn't the right person
to be discussing this with you?
No.
Well, then what did Ms. Wesley do?
She was really nice.
We talked for a long time
and I could tell that she really cared.
Mm.
I asked her how she kept it all together
so well, and she said, "Jesus."
So, she's the one who brought up Jesus?
Did her endorsement of Jesus
move you to explore Christianity?
Yes, at first.
But when the Salvation Army came
to pick up my brother's things,
one of the ladies found his
Bible, and she gave it to me.
I didn't even know that he had one.
Mm.
So, I started reading it,
and once I started,
I realized that I didn't wanna stop.
That's why.
That's why I came up with the
question that I asked in class.
Now, if I understand you correctly,
without Ms. Wesley's direct involvement,
you never would've asked that question
in the first place, would you?
I don't know.
After all of your Bible readings,
do you feel now that you're a believer?
Yes.
Maybe even a Christian?
Yes.
At the risk of seeming redundant,
do you think any of this,
the Bible readings,
the question about Jesus in class,
the newfound commitment to Christianity,
is it likely that any of that
would've occurred
without Ms. Wesley's direct involvement?
No, it wouldn't.
I thank you for your honesty.
No further questions, Your Honor.
Mr. Endler, do you wish to redirect?
No, Your Honor.
You may step down, Ms. Thawley.
Why do they look so angry?
Because they think we lied to them.
But we didn't.
It doesn't matter.
This court is adjourned.
I have to prepare you, Grace.
We're gonna lose this case.
I know.
You were right.
I'm gonna lose everything.
We saw a very large crowd
out here at the courthouse yesterday,
both in protest and
support of teacher Grace Wesley,
who is on trial for allegedly
proselytizing at the classroom.
Now, in an unexpected move yesterday,
we saw some of Wesley's former students
come out to silently demonstrate
their support for their teacher.
Oh Father, please take this from me.
I don't know what to do.
Please don't forsake me.
Please.
Hey, Brooke.
I ruined everything, didn't I?
It's okay, you don't have to answer.
I know that I did.
I'm not even allowed to talk to her.
How do I let her know that I'm sorry
without making things worse?
I can't tell you what to do,
but whatever you do,
just let her know you care.
Recently, when I've been praying,
it's like Jesus isn't letting me
feel his presence.
Usually I can almost
reach out and touch him,
but right now it's like
he's a million miles away.
Honey, you of all people should realize
when you're going through
something really hard,
the teacher is always quiet
during the test.
# Oh Lord my God #
# When I in awesome wonder #
# Consider all the worlds
thy hands have made #
# I see the stars #
# I hear the rolling thunder #
# Thy power throughout
the universe displayed #
# Then sings my soul,
my Savior God, to thee #
# How great thou art #
# How great thou art #
# Then sings my soul,
my Savior God, to thee #
# How great thou art #
First of all,
this trial took an unexpected turn
when Wesley's counsel decided they'd
try to prove the existence of Jesus.
Gary, this is kind of
your area of expertise.
How do you convince the skeptics?
Well, Governor, I employ what
I call the minimal facts method,
which uses only the historical events
that are so well evidenced
that they're accepted across the board,
even by skeptical
and non-Christian scholars.
As a result, we...
Now I understand what it is
you weren't allowed to talk about.
I wish I still wasn't
allowed to talk about it.
She needs me on that jury.
Have faith, David.
God's plan is at work.
How'd you get here anyway?
I borrowed your Prius. It's very nice.
Don't get too comfortable.
I'm planning a full recovery.
So, Rice, do you believe that she
was proselytizing to her students?
Governor, not at all.
Jesus Christ was the most
influential person who ever lived.
How could you ignore
that fact and teach history?
I think the real problem is...
Hey, Martin!
More questions?
I wanted to make sure that you were okay.
Yeah, I'm fine.
They're just holding me
over for a little observation.
I'll be released soon.
Something different about you.
Are you okay?
I should say so.
Yes.
I believe God wants me to be a minister,
to return to my country
and become a pastor,
just like you.
That's great.
There'll be challenges in your country.
Are you prepared for them?
I am.
I'm proud of you.
Come here.
That's awesome.
It's a shocking reality
that Christians are soon gonna be forced
to choose between obeying the law
of man or following the Word of God.
I'm Mike Huckabee.
We'll see you next time
on "Point of View."
Hey, Brooke, why don't you
go be with Ms. Wesley.
I think we can handle this.
Yeah, seriously, we've got backup coming.
You're covered.
Go get 'em.
God's got this.
Where's Tom?
All rise.
Be seated.
Are we missing someone?
Sorry, Your Honor.
My apologies to the court.
That's unexpected.
He almost looks like a lawyer.
Your Honor, I have
one final witness to call.
Grace Wesley.
Ms. Wesley,
please approach the witness stand.
Do I have to?
I'm afraid so.
Your Honor, given the
witness's reluctance to testify,
can I have the court's permission
to treat her as a hostile witness?
You may. Proceed at your own peril.
Do you swear to tell the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
I do.
Please be seated.
Grace, I want you to do something for me,
something for everyone in this courtroom.
I want you to apologize.
I want you to say you're sorry
and that you made a mistake.
Your Honor, what's going on here?
Do it, Grace.
I can't do that.
Why? Why can't you do that, Grace?
Because I don't believe
I did anything wrong.
Well, as your attorney, I'm
advising you to do it anyway.
To at least pretend that you're sorry and
throw yourself on the mercy of the court.
What?
That would be a lie.
So what?
Everyone lies.
Not everyone.
Are you looking to become a martyr?
What in the world is he doing?
I have no idea.
No.
Tommy...
Then what is it that you want, Grace?
Tell me. Tell us.
I want...
I want to be able to tell the truth.
The truth?
Whose truth?
And what truth are you referring to?
Grace, is there some truth that
you know that no one else knows?
Oh, that's right.
The other night, didn't you tell me
that Jesus spoke to you personally?
Why are you doing this?
I'm the one asking
the questions, Ms. Wesley.
Did you or did you not tell me
that Jesus spoke to you personally?
Yes.
And what did he say?
I'll make it easier for you.
Didn't you say that he
asked you a question?
That was personal.
You weren't supposed to...
I don't care.
The other night, you told me
that Jesus asked you something.
What did he ask you, Grace?
Tell all of us.
I think we deserve to know.
Why are you doing this to me?
Answer the question.
They won't believe me.
Doesn't matter.
All that matters is that you believe it.
Tell us, Grace, under penalty of perjury,
what was the question that God
presented to you personally
that night on campus?
Answer the question.
Answer the question!
He asked, "Who do you say that I am?"
And what did you answer?
You are the Christ,
the Son of the living God.
Well, there you have it.
Your Honor, I think we've
all heard quite enough.
Mr. Endler, are you
looking to change your client's plea?
No, Your Honor.
I say she's innocent of all wrongdoing.
But I'm asking the jury
to find against her anyway.
I mean, let's, let's face it.
She has the audacity to believe
not only that there is a God,
but that she has a personal
relationship with Him,
which colors everything
that she says and does.
I think it's time that we stop pretending
that we can trust a person like this
to serve in a public capacity.
In the name of tolerance
and diversity, I say we destroy her.
That's enough, Mr. Endler.
Then we can all go to our graves content,
knowing that we stomped out
the last spark of faith
that was ever exhibited
in the public square.
That's enough, Mr. Endler.
I say we make an example of her.
Mr. Endler, that's enough.
Let's set a new precedent, that employment
by our federal government mandates
that you must first denounce
any belief system you have.
Mr. Endler that is enough!
You are out of order.
And if someone slips through the cracks
and hides their beliefs,
then we arrest them and fine them.
And if they don't pay,
then we seize their property.
And if they resist...
Well, let's not kid ourselves.
Enforcement is always at the end of a gun.
Mr. Endler, you are out of order.
I charge you with contempt!
I accept the charge, because I have
nothing but contempt for these proceedings.
If we're going to insist that
a Christian's right to believe
is subordinate to all other rights,
then it's not a right.
Somebody is always going to be offended.
Two thousand years of
human history proves that.
So, I say we get on with it.
Cite the law, charge the jury,
and send them off to deliberate.
So be it!
Now, we are gonna bypass
the usual closing arguments,
unless Mr. Kane finds the need
to further address the jury.
No, Your Honor.
We can ask nothing more.
My instructions to you are simple.
Uphold the law without unfairly
prejudicing your decision
or risking a mistrial on appeal.
Now, I believe I can safely say
that the respondent's counsel
has dared you to convict his own client.
The jury will now be
dismissed for deliberation.
We are adjourned.
She hasn't got a prayer.
Let's go.
Remind me to send him a thank-you note.
Thank you so much. Thank you, guys.
Thanks for coming out.
Hey, right now on the phone,
a friend of mine named Amy is on the line,
and she's calling about a woman
who's on trial for her faith.
This woman has risked
everything for Jesus.
Amy's asked me to pray for this woman.
Will you guys join me?
Lord, we know that
to risk anything for you
is a complete honor with eternal rewards.
But if it's within your will,
can you please restore this woman's hope
and make her faith
an example to all of us?
Lord, show your power to a fallen world.
We know you have the power to do anything.
So, we ask you right now, crying
out as the body of Christ,
move those hearts of those people,
both the judge and the jury,
to let them know the
beauty of your majesty.
And we all said amen.
Amen.
Ladies and gentlemen
of the jury, have you reached a decision?
We have, Your Honor.
And how do you find?
We, the jury, find in favor
of Grace Wesley.
We are adjourned.
Nice shoes.
Grace, I'm sorry.
I couldn't tell you.
It had to come as a surprise,
otherwise the jury wouldn't have
been swayed by your reactions.
So, you did have a plan.
No, you did.
You stood up for what you believed in
and you held on to your faith.
I don't know anybody
that would have done that.
They were hoping to
make an example of you,
but instead you became an inspiration.
We did it!
Hey, you've kept quiet long enough.
Why don't you go share the good news?
Hey, thank you.
Yeah.
# When did it become breaking a rule #
# To say your name out loud in school #
# When your name's the only one
that sets us free #
# When did it become incorrect #
# To speak the truth
about life and death #
# When your life gave us all eternity #
# Even if it gets me convicted #
# I'll be on my knees
with my hands lifted #
God's not dead!
# If serving you's
against the law of man #
# If living out my faith
in you is banned #
# Then I'll stand right before the jury #
# If saying I believe is out of line #
# If it's just cause
I'm gonna give my life #
# To show the world
the love that fills me #
# Then I want to be guilty #
A case that was turning for the worse
was concluded with a powerful
happy ending for Ms. Grace Wesley.
Live outside the courthouse
here in Hope Springs.
Father. You did it!
Ha ha ha ha ha!
God is good.
The verdict is in.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait.
I want to hear this.
In the case of Thawley v. Wesley,
they have ruled in favor of Grace Wesley.
The crowd is in full celebration
here in Hope Springs.
So are you gonna say it, or should I?
Say what?
God is good.
All the time.
And all the time.
God is good.
Amen, brother.
# Show the world the love that fills me #
# Love that fills me #
# Then I want to be guilty
by association #
# Guilty of being a voice
proclaiming your ways #
# Your truth, your life #
# I'll pay the price to be your light #
I'll get to work on the appeal.
Don't bother.
If we appeal and lose,
it'll set a precedent.
I don't want that.
I don't understand how we lost this.
He outsmarted us.
He played our role in attacking Wesley.
He made the jury hate everyone, but her.
Not to mention he proved
the existence of Jesus Christ.
God's not dead! He's surely alive!
God's not dead! He's surely alive!
God's not dead! He's surely alive!
God's not dead! He's surely alive!
God's not dead! He's surely alive!
God's not dead! He's surely alive!
God's not dead! He's surely alive!
# My God's not dead, he's surely alive #
# He's living on the inside,
roaring like a lion #
# God's not dead, he's surely alive #
# He's living on the inside,
roaring like a lion #
# He's roaring #
# He's roaring... #
# He's roaring like a lion #
# Let hope arise
and make the darkness hide #
# My faith is dead,
I need a resurrection somehow #
# Now I'm lost in your freedom #
# In this world, I'll overcome #
# My God's not dead, he's surely alive #
# He's living on the inside,
roaring like a lion #
# My God's not dead, he's surely alive #
# He's living on the inside,
roaring like a lion #
# God's not dead, he's surely alive #
# He's living on the inside,
roaring like a lion #
# God's not dead, he's surely alive #
# He's living on the inside,
roaring like a lion #
# He's roaring... #
# He's roaring #
# He's roaring like a lion #
# He's roaring... #
# He's roaring #
# He's roaring like a lion #
# He's roaring like a lion. #
# You're not everybody's expectations #
# You're not just the cards you're dealt #
# You aren't a product
of your generation #
# You are what you make yourself #
# Take all that you're afraid to say #
# Post it up and put it on display #
# You don't have to play nice now #
# Stay held down, shut up,
and keep it quiet #
# Don't have to take the easy
way out, follow the in-crowd #
# Stand up and make a riot #
# Nothing's gonna change if you won't #
# No, nothing's gonna
change if you don't #
# It'll be the hardest thing
you'll ever have to do #
# But don't let them silence you #
# When you look back on this moment #
# You'll have wished
you'd spoken your mind #
# Step up to the plate and own it #
# Instead of blending in the sidelines #
# Take all that you're afraid to be #
# Light it up for everyone to see #
# You don't have to play nice now #
# Stay held down, shut up,
and keep it quiet #
# Don't have to take the easy
way out, follow the in-crowd #
# Stand up and make a riot #
# Nothing's gonna change if you won't #
# No, nothing's gonna
change if you don't #
# It'll be the hardest thing
you'll ever have to do #
# But don't let them silence you #
# And when we're gone, our words live on #
# So, don't let them silence, silence #
# No, you won't #
# You don't have to play nice now #
# Stay held down, shut up,
and keep it quiet #
# Don't have to take the easy
way out, follow the in-crowd #
# Stand up and make a riot #
# Nothing's gonna change if you won't #
# No, nothing's gonna
change if you don't #
# It'll be the hardest thing
you'll ever have to do #
# But don't let them silence you #
# No, don't let them silence you. #
You know I'm gonna need my keys back.
I know.
Two days of ice chips. I'm starving.
I'm hungry as well, David.
How about I take you for a nice tuna melt?
David Hill?
Yes?
You're under arrest.
For what?
Contempt of court.
You failed to produce your
sermons upon court order.
Please put your hands behind your back.
Please be gentle.
He has just been released
from the hospital.
I don't understand.
What is he being accused of?
You have the right to remain silent.
Anything you say can and will
be used against you
in a court of law.
You have a right to an attorney.
If you cannot afford an attorney,
one will be provided for you.
Do you understand the rights
I have just read to you?
Yes.
Sorry about this, Pastor.
It's okay.
Looks like I'm gonna need you to fill
in for me a little while longer.
Of course, David, anything you need.
What do we do now?
Same as always, Martin.
We pray, in faith.