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Ornette: Made in America (1985)
You fellows just better
get on out of here. We're having a big celebration. You gonna give us our money back? You just get back on over yonder. Yonder. Get on out of town. Oh, no. We're not gonna drop our guns. We're not even... Ladies and gentlemen, Legends of the West welcomes you to Caravan of Dreams. I want to read this proclamation for you, Ornetle, and then I've got a little gift for you. All right, 'Whereas Ornette Coleman, born and reared in the city of Fort Worth, has enriched the lives of individuals of every race, color and creed as a composer, performer, and renowned jazz musician, and whereas Ornette Coleman, a widely acclaimed figure in the jazz world has traveled throughout the United States, Europe, Japan and Africa and fashioned for himself an unchallenged right to historical prominence; Whereas Ornette Coleman has demonstrated that individual initiative and the free enterprise system continue to be the American way of life and that success is possible for all who take advantage of the opportunities in our country; Now, therefore, I, Bob Bolen, Mayor of the City of Fort Worth, Texas, do hereby proclaim September 29, 1983, as Ornette Coleman Day in the city of Fort Worth. " Congratulations. Thank you very much. Although you're a citizen of Fort Worth, we want you to have a key to the city of Fort Worth. Now, this is a tie clip. You haven't got a tie on today. You will later. But the original of this was taken to the moon by Alan Bean, another Fort Worth native. Yeah, that's the key to the city. Where's the moon? It's a key to the city, right? He was with the mayor this afternoon. Where are the pieces of the moon? Yeah, he said it went to the moon. The key went to the moon? Why did this key go to the moon? I don't know, man, you know, how the mayor recited the whole document before he gave it to him, right? And then he accepted the key. And it was really nice. Did you cry? Did you cry? No, I didn't cry, man. It wasn't that sentimental. It was nice receiving a key to the city, man. You know, it's not every day that something like that happens. It must be a tie pin. It says "Fort Worth". I know, but that's not the key, is it? Yeah, it looks like a key. Don't you see it? Man, the key went to the moon. It's like when they take objects to the moon and stuff like that. Why would they take that to the moon? Just for, you know, just for the experience. It's like this has been to the moon. Like somebody gives you a shirt, and it's from Paris. See that trumpet case over there... the mouthpiece? Looks good. Cowtown USA. The mouthpiece... Now remember, I'm gonna let out all the dogs. What is it that you do that is different from other drummers in relationship to playing without having to have something to go by'? It's obvious you don't have anything to go by, but yet you're playing as if you did, and that is a very modern way of playing. I'm just trying to find out what method do you use to be correct or be right. I mean, you're more right than you are wrong, you know. I don't know. I just don't have any particular method. So when you do it it's just a spontaneous thing that's happening, and how you're hearing the music when you do do it. Yeah. Are you planning to become a drummer as far as growing up to be a man? What they call being an artist and all that, does that ever occur to you? Yeah, but I'm not sure. Let's fly it again. On the reeds; On the rhythms. Charlie, you play the changes this time, all right? Yeah, that was... that was really there. That was really there that time; I mean the idea of the whole piece. That house was standing like that when I was a little kid. I remember playing in the streets here one day, and my mother told me, "Don't you leave this yard". I said, "Yes, ma'am". And as soon as she went to town I ran downstairs and started playing football, and I looked up and saw her and my sister coming. I peed in my pants and I was running back down here because she told me, "If you leave this yard, I'm going to spank you. " And I said, "Oh, my mothers gonna beat me. I better run. " But she caught me, and she did. She beat me to death. You remember that. Yeah, I remember it very well. But you know, I was listening to the tape the other night. And the thing that really amazed me, what really makes me want to play music is when I really hear an individual thought pattern placed in an environment to make something actually come about that is not an obvious thing that everyone is doing, and actually it comes... You do more- I'll tell you the truth, I think you do it much better than I do. That's what I'm trying to say. Because I remember having an elder musician telling me, "Oh, your kid, your kid," this here. I remember being in California when I read a review of a drummer saying that, oh, you know, I should get some other kind of drummer because I shouldn't have you because you were my- we were related. But really it was just- now that I look back at it, it was really insecurity and jealousy. The train really comes through your backyard. Oh, yeah. That train liked to wake me up every morning. I was living really close to the track there. Hey. W- You make your mother to answer that door, or I'll lock you up. Oh! Junior! Junior, where you going? Outside. No, you're not. You're slaying here. Thank you. Brion was saying this is almost the exact day ten years later you were together in Jajouka. I'm gonna find that video I have of Burroughs and you and I in the tent. Yeah, really, a great event that occurred in the mountains of Morocco. We don't have any of the music from Jajouka to go on the soundtrack, do you? Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. How did you guys get together at that point in time? Well, Bob Palmer had a good deal to do with it because he'd played and been up there several times. Ornette, you know, one thing I've always wondered about- You remember when I came back when Gysin took me up to Jajouka and I played with the musicians up there and I brought back those tapes, and you listened to them. And to my incredible surprise, you said, "Let's go, let's get an organization together and go up and make a record with those guys. " And we went and did it. What did you hear in those tapes that made you want to do that? Well, I was telling someone the other day when I was in New Orleans, I was playing in a Sanctified Church, and you know, in most churches the pianos are so out of tune that they be playing in the key of Z... K... P... T... I mean, H. And I took my horn in this Sanctified Church, and I played the same way I'm playing now. When I heard those tapes, I heard that same quality, only on a much more high level than religion. It was more on a creative level. Because most religion is on an emotional level. This was on a creative level, and that's what really turned me on. I said I got to go and play with these guys, because I could see that for once I would be able to play whatever passed through my heart and head without ever having to worry about was it right or wrong. We had something like 15 double reed horns and 15 drummers, and Ornette and me and hundreds of hill tribesmen all camped out in tents around this little village on the top of this mountain, and the place was just shaking. Bob was playing, and I keep telling him, and I have this tape, where he started playing, and all of a sudden through some instinct the whole sound of everything that was going on passed through his horn. It was like intense flame. I mean, his clarinet sounded like it was just some kind of bolt of fire. I mean, it was the most incredible sound I ever heard any musician play, including myself. That would be a pertinent question. An impertinent question. An impertinent question works even better sometimes. Can you think of an impertinent question? Pertinent or impertinent. A question. Immortality to the people. Every man a god. How do you get to be a god? Well, to put it apple pie country simple, by doing your job and doing it well. So you may become a god of jugglers and acrobats; A god of the long chance- the horse that comes from last to win in the stretch; The punch-drunk fighter who comes up from the floor to win by a knockout a god of future space travelers who are ready to leave the whole human context behind and take a step into the unknown. Well, every man a god if you can qualify. You can't be a god of anything unless you can do it, for Christ's sakes. Happiness is a by-product of function, and those who seek happiness for itself seek victory without war, and that is a flaw in all utopias, and of course a paradise is really a terminal utopia. One thing that's always mystified we that I feel was magic about your band with Don Cherry and Blackwell and Charlie, and that is- and I think a lot of other people, too- you never counted off your pieces. I mean, just everybody would instinctively or intuitively come in with the instruments at the same time, and you didn't nod your head. Yeah, I didn't nod my head. We're gonna start when we start. HOW did that work? Insane, instinctive insight. See, that's one reason I think that the West doesn't really understand about music, because the West thinks of music as entertainment, you know, and in the same way this feeling that persisted in jazz for years that, well, black musicians came along and were kind of geniuses. What they don't understand is that the heart is probably the highest kind of intelligence. This intuitive intelligence that we have in the Third World countries is really Third World technology, so, I mean, the answer lies in music. I asked Buckminster Fuller, I said, "Don't you think it's a scientist's responsibility to relate his discipline not only to that science but to everything?" His answer was, 'Well, you have a dome. Why don't you use if?" OK, well... actually I met Buckminster Fuller in 1954 at Hollywood High in Hollywood, California, and I listened to his lecture, and I was just inspired. In fact, I once studied architecture. I thought I was going to be an architect, then I thought I was going to be a brain specialist, then I thought I was gonna... I wanted to be so many things. So I finally realized I didn't have enough money to support any of these ideas, so I decided I would pursue my career imitating music. So I got a horn and I started playing whatever I heard on the radio, and the one thing that really just blew me away was his demonstration of his own domes, and when he demonstrated the way his domes are put together and how geometric they were done, it just blew me away because I said this is how I've been writing music. This is the way I write music. I was in Rome, and I was on my way to Florence to play a concert, and I'd heard that he had passed, and so I dedicated my program to him. To me he surpassed all of the entities that have to do with surviving because of abilities or skills, and to me he became one of my- he's probably my best hero. In the short time that I'll have with you I'll spontaneously select out what I think most relevant of all things we can talk about about humans in the universe, which is the only subject I really care about, and about what I assess to be our position in evolutionary history right now. When I was born, reality was everything you could see, smell, touch and hear. Very important to remind you and everybody else that no human being has ever seen outside himself. We see entirely in our television set inside the brain. We have this thing called imagination; Imagination. As Bucky says, you can't see outside yourself, but we do have imagination. The expression of all individual imagination is what I call harmolodics, and each being's imagination is their own unison, and there are as many unisons as there are stars in the sky. Yeah, them were the days, man, when all the kids went to one school, all the colored... Yeah, that's right; L.M. Terrell. If you wasn't black, you couldn't go there. No, you couldn't go there. And busing's not new, because kids were bused... Busing is outdated compared to this. That was all there was was busing then. I remember when you used to play upstairs over here, and we weren't old enough to go up there. That's right. We used to sneak up the steps, and William Richland's daddy was the doorman, and we'd all have bricks in our pockets just in case something broke out up there and we had to get out in a hurry. I remember Charlie Rouse used to get all of us: "Let's go upstairs. " "The Bucket Of Blood," that's what we used to call it. And you know what? When I got to New York City, King Curtis was driving a Rolls-Royce. Yeah. King Curtis was probably the most successful musician that left Fort Worth. He had his own porter car, train car. He was opening for the Beatles. Well, I'll be dogged. I'll be dogged. King Curtis. King Curtis made heavy money. I know it. King Curtis, when I got to New York City, he came and picked me up in his Rolls-Royce, and you know I was making peanuts compared to what he was making. He was making big money, you know, and playing really beautiful. Yeah, I know. Charlie sent me the clipping. There's a building in New York City that looks exactly like this building- the Flatiron Building in New York. General Worth, the guy that Fen Worth was named after, was buried there on 23rd and Fifth Avenue, across the street from the Flatiron Building. Thank you all so very much. Once again a great hand for the ladies and gentlemen in the band who worked so very hard. I'd like to thank our sound crew from the Port Authority, World Trade Center, who sponsor these concerts; The recording industry; Most of all I'd like to thank you for coming on your lunch. I hope you enjoyed it. Go, Denardo. That's all the way down in the World Trade Center? Yeah. It's synchronized with up here, right? Yes. Did you ever see anything like this before? Nu No, I haven't. Do you think it's pretty weird? Oh, I think it's great. When musicians can get together without being together and playing together, I think it's fantastic. So what do you think about this television/music stuff? All right, It's all right? Yeah. You still play the drums, and now you're the manager. How do you feel about that responsibility'? Well, I think it works out pretty nice because what we're doing and what he's kind of doing business-wise, things that have happened to have been kind of unusual, as the music is kind of unusual. It's a different situation that somebody who's managing and doing the business has to be aware of and sensitive to. And since I've seen so many people come and go that played that role that didn't know quite how to work it out One place called the California Club in the late fifties, and I think his music was so powerful at that time that they were very puzzled, confused, and embarrassed, and, of course, them being next to him, sort of it made their music a little off balance or a little weaker, and their attitudes were really a drag. I mean, they looked at him like, "What is this guy doing?" And they would look at the audience like, "God, isn't this a drag?" And of course they put him off the stand. Well, the so-called Ornette mystique- It's like when he first started playing, like... people would break his instrument. Well, like when I first met him in Los Angeles, I walked into a place one Wednesday night, and the entire rhythm section, they just got up and left the stand, you know, and left the saxophone player up there playing. So I came to a quick conclusion this has got to be Ornette Coleman, you know, and true, it was. Ornette has always been different. He has always been different from anybody else. He wanted to invent things for himself. He's an inventor. He wasn't accepted at all. He's had times when he walked on the bandstand and the musicians walked off. And he has come back home on several occasions. Then he went to New York and went into the Five Spot, and he had the same band that had been with Ornette about 10 or 15 years, and when he got to New York, he hit it. And suddenly Ornette Coleman, up on the bandstand in the Five Spot during a blizzard started to play the blues like Charlie Parker, and I have never heard anyone else other than Charlie Parker do that that way, and Charlie Parker has had many followers, and he has also had many imitators, and there's a big difference. None of them has come near this. Ornetle had the attack on the reed right. He was doing it like late Parker, too- the more virtuoso period of Parker's short career. He was absolutely uncanny, and he went on and on doing it. And I said, man, why don't you do this more often? Why don't you do this on a record to show people that you really do know what you're doing- those that won't listen to you and learn it that way? And Ornette said something like, "Oh, I like to do that every now and then for fun," or something like that, and dismissed it that way. A symphony orchestra musician is trained to be extremely precise, to meld with everyone else in the orchestra, where Ornette's whole philosophy is totally contrary to that. He wants the freedom of expression between, among all the musicians in the orchestra. He wants people to feel free to express themselves at any time within the confines of the structure that he has designated. I see the connection between the jazz and the symphony orchestra in a very interesting way. To me it's like two different forces juxtaposed against one another, and it's almost, to me, it's almost like two sources of language. And in Ornette's playing and in the entire group, Prime Time group, I hear elements of very early jazz, even dating back to Dixieland. I think there was a feeling of- for me, to be absolutely honest- a feeling of apprehension, a feeling of being... threatened by this... mind of yours. And I probably was, along with just about everybody else. We had an inkling of what would come. So when I finally met you in 1959 at the School of Jazz in Lenox, the worse dreams came true. I heard your music and knew that here was the music that was frightening in its implications, that they would have to learn new disciplines. And I think in that sense you influenced everybody, you know. Obviously the initial impact of free jazz was kind of chaotic. Everybody was running off in the early sixties and doing everything they could think of doing, and whereas it made sense in a kind of instinctual way for Ornetle to do it, it didn't always make sense for some of his imitators to do it. But Ornette was always one step ahead of them because he was moving on to something else while they were still imitating his earlier phases. His current phase, it seems to me, really got going in the early seventies when he went to Morocco, when he started picking up in a lot of ways on different kinds of Third World music. Any kind of music encounters resistance from the mainstream audiences if it's particularly dissonant or particularly jagged rhythmically or off-putting in that kind of way, and this is a problem that's been faced by everything from modernist classical music to free jazz to punk rock. Ornetle, to his credit, has not sold out, if you want to put it in the basic terms. He has pursued what he wants to do. This got him branded as an eccentric when he was young. It gets him branded as a genius when he's old. Well, I've been working on this dream for about 20 years now, and it seems as if it's getting closer and closer to a reality. And what I intend to do with this space here on Rivington is to make a multiple expression center which involves space, artists, dramatics, and science. I had to migrate to California, then to Europe, then to New York, and to go through lots of things just to get to this normal state that I'm trying to achieve now. So I do believe that the belief system, the concept of what is called the emotional state of human beings and their desire to do things in their own time is an endless cycle in what is called the human cycle, and I would like to, in my cycle, making a contribution to that cycle. There were two very bad incidents that happened in this building. The first was in September 1982. I got a call about? A.m. while I was sleeping, from my father, and he said he had just been tied up and beaten by six teenagers that came in to rob him. So I immediately called the police and called other people here in the building and told them what happened. And I ran down from where I was, which was about 12 blocks away. By the time I got here the police were here and people were already up here. And he had been tied up and hit in the head with a hammer, actually, by these kids, which they didn't have to do, but they were scared and they were trying to take his equipment, lake his money. Someone saw them on the way out, and they had to drop everything, but they got away. He crawled across the floor, actually, to call me while he was still tied up, and you know, it was amazing that not more happened to him. He just got a concussion, but it was bad. He had to stay in the hospital a few days. Then about six months later, still at this building, we were walking up the steps and in the dark two guys attacked us. They hit him with a crowbar, and I grabbed one guy and was hitting him with a board that I'd picked up. We took him to the hospital and they released him that evening, but during the next day he had a lot of trouble breathing and we knew something was wrong, so we took the ambulance and came back to the hospital. That's when we found out he had a punctured lung. But all that happened, let's say, within a six- or seven-month period, and all because he was just trying to do his work here in this building where he could be peaceful and people wouldn't have to bother him and he wouldn't have to bother other people, and he would have enough space to take care of things that he wanted to take care of. It's a dangerous area. At one point it was known as the most heavily drug-trafficked area- you know, it's the Lower East Side. And you always have people who are going to mug you or rob you or take your money, anything. A lot of junkies, a lot of poor people, also, and that's the conditions that are in this neighborhood. But this building he got through a public auction. It used to be a New York City school building. It has a tremendous amount of space and potential to do a lot here. He's going to develop it and have maybe a music school or galleries and performances and a lot of things happening, once it's developed. But until that point, or until things get a little better, it's always going to be dangerous, you know. And I worry about him a lot. He's not necessarily going to stay here or live here, but just being in this area, you law, will be dangerous. I'd like to go out in space tonight, and one reason why is because all the things such as religion, science, astrology, death, survival, and all those things, they leave you without any answers other than what's going to happen to me when I'm gone. So why not think about what's going to happen to you while you're here? About four months ago I got a questionnaire from NASA asking me about my interest in working in space as an artist. And in this category they asked if you wanted to come to NASA; Did you want to work in the shuttle; Or did you just want to work on different projects. So I went, I look their documents to a lawyer friend of mine, and we filled them out, and I put several of my friends down that I thought I'd like to have there with me. Well, I think that whatever out in space I have met and whatever is not out in space I have met. I mean, in other words, if space is only space to communicate to us if there is a being or a theme. So therefore the earth itself is in space, so we're already out in space. It's just the difference between looking up and looking down. In fact that's why I admire Buckminster Fuller. He said in his last lecture that I attended that there's no such thing as up and down. There's only out So in that sense I don't expect to find anything that I haven't already experienced, out. Say a million years from today the image of what we know as human beings might become altered or might become extinct. I don't believe that the human form will ever cease to exist. So if it's not on what is called this earth, then I guess the next place would be what is called heaven, and in a sense heaven is a form of space, could be considered as a place in space. And for some reason, if the earth is not here or if it's destroyed, humanity is not going to go with it. That's why I would like to go out in space because I'm not interested in, personally, what's going to happen to me after I pass. I'm more interested in what can I experience while I'm alive. This beautiful woman was coming down this street, and the more we got close to each other she started smiling. Finally when I got really close to her she grabbed me and kissed me real passionate. Then in my broken English I asked, 'What is your name?" Who are you? And she started screaming. And she didn't have no idea who I was than a bullfrog, you know? And I said, "Oh, my goodness. Maybe if I hadn't opened my voice we would have had a good time. " Tell us the castration story. Nu But I'll tell you a story about it. When you said tell them about sex, well, when I was... I guess I was turning to be a teenager, and I remember having to walk home with girls from high school. I got involved in, you know, trying to court my little high school playmates and things. And during that time I started playing music as well. Also, when I played music I always got a different kind of relationship to girls. And then I started wondering; I wonder if this... if playing music has anything to do with these girls liking me, and if I wasn't playing music, how would they respond to me? I'd really become very serious, and so I started traveling, and when I was traveling I always found that I could pick up a girl because I told her I was playing music. No, not yet, not yet. I never got over the feeling of knowing whether some girl would like me because of me just being a person and not just a performer. And so after having been married and having a kid I was thinking about eliminating any sexual feeling I could have in my body. So I was told that was called castration. So I went to the doctor and I told him that's what I thought I was interested in him doing. So he looked at me very strange because I think I'm about 30, 32, I'm in my early 30s. So, you know, he looked at me very strange and said, 'Well, are you sure that's what you really want?" I said, "Yeah, that's what I want". And so he said, 'Well, I'll tell you what. Before you try that, why don't you try circumcision first?" I said I didn't have any idea what he was talking about because, you know, it's just something I hadn't thought about. And I said, "Is that a kind of form of castrating?" And he said, "Well, not exactly, but it's symbolic". I'm going to have a baby. Can I have your baby'? So I had the operation of being circumcised, and finally after I got well I still didn't feel any change. I mean, it didn't improve. I didn't solve that problem by having that particular operation. But one thing that I did solve was the fact that I realized that being physical or sexual has nothing to do with what you think or believe. It has more to do with who you think you're affecting and what you think you're affecting. And so from then- from that day to this day- I have decided there's two kinds of human beings- one female and one male, and one man and one woman. So I decided to join what I thought the categories would be. I would rather be a man than a male. So that was the conclusion of all the things that I had done. That's the results of what I came to. Bravo! Bravo! Bravo! Bravo! Bravo! Bravo! Bravo! Bravo! Bravo! Bravo! Oh, fine. How are you doing? Mr. Ornette, ifs a pleasure to meet you. Same here. And Hell you, Jean has lived, talked, dreamt- where I find out more and more about Ornette Coleman. Oh, my goodness. That's my saxophone. That was good. Yeah, you should have had your horn. You could have come up and played with us, man. It was very, very nice. Aren't you from Fort Worth? Yeah. I write for the Dallas Morning News. I'd very much like to meet with you. Oh, well, I'm at the Americana. How long are you going to be there? Until about the 6th or 7th of October. - Of October? - Yeah. May I call you for an interview'? Yeah, sure. My name is Lee Ann Howe. H-OW-E. And I write for the Dallas Morning News. I'd very much like to meet you. I enjoyed it very much. - Thank you. - Thank you very much. Marvelous, fantastic! All I can say is I have a friend that I'm going to send to see you at the club. Were they taking a recording? Yeah, they were. Good. That would be great. Oh, thank you. I'm gonna see my friends. It was a wonderful concert. Just beautiful. Thank you. Thank you very much. Ornette, can I have your autograph, please? Excuse me. How will I find your room at the Americana? I'm in 1104. 1104? A lot of times when celebrities stay there they won't tell you. Well, I'm telling you. It's 1104. I'll be there. Thank you very much. This is a very exciting happening. It is a very exciting happening. John, you're a great disappointment to us all. I am? I left my clothes on. Want a sip? Hello, my darlings. I'm having a marvelous time. Love yuns all. No, darling. I'm from Beverly Hills, California, and I worked in Tarzan movies out in Hollywood... with Lex Barker... and Down to Earth with Rita Hayworth, The Harvey Girls with Judy Garland, many, many others. I love Fort Worth. I pretend I'm a Texan now. I've even got the Texas accent. Sweetheart. Oh, I love you, too, you good-looking doll. Friends and neighbors # That's where it's at # Friends and neighbors # That's where it's at # Friends and neighbors # That's a fact # Hand in hand That's the score Hand in hand That's the score All of the world, so. So, so! Friends and neighbors # # That's where it's at # Friends and neighbors # # That's where it's at # I Friends and neighbors # That's a fact # Hand in hand That's the score Hand in hand That's the score All of the world # Go! Go! Go! # Friends and neighbors # # That's where it's at # I Friends and neighbors # # That's where it's at # Friends and neighbors # # That's a fact # Hand in hand That's the score Hand in hand That's the score All of the world, so. So, so! Friends and neighbors # # That's where it's at # Friends and neighbors # # That's where it's at # I Friends and neighbors # # That's a fact # Hand in hand That's the score Hand in hand That's the score All of the world Go! Go! Go! # Friends and neighbors # |
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