1
- Hey. Bob, what's up?
- Hi. Listen.
According to an unconfirmed
report, David Wallace is dead.
What? No. No, no, no.
No, It must be some sort of a
college prank or something.
Well, I thought if anybody knew whether
it was true or not, it'd be you.
Now a remembrance of writer
David Foster Wallace.
He was found dead, an apparent
suicide, on Friday night.
Wallace's novel, Infinite
Jest, brought him fame...
and a wide audience.
Writer David Lipsky
has this appreciation.
"To read David Foster Wallace was
to feel your eyelids pulled open."
Some writers specialize in the
'away from home' experience.
They have safaried, eaten
across Italy, covered a war.
Wallace offered his alive self,
cutting through
our sleepy aquarium,
our standard TV, stores,
political campaigns.
Writers who can do this...
like Salinger and Fitzgerald...
forge an unbreakable bond
with readers.
You didn't slip into the books
looking for a story, information,
but for a particular
experience...
the sensation,
for a certain number of pages,
"of being David Foster Wallace."
If anything, there was
a conscious attempt...
to not give overt direction,
although, of course,
you end up becoming yourself.
Did they want you
to be a writer or no?
No. I was gonna be... The big
thing, when I was little...
I was... I was, like, a
really serious jock. Really?
Yeah. I played
citywide football as a kid.
I was really big,
really strong as a kid.
And then for four or five years, I was
gonna be, like, a pro tennis player.
That was my great dream.
Reading was just
this kind of fun,
sort of weird thing
that I did on the side.
"I didn't understand SoHo..."
the warehouses, the old
buildings, the cobbled streets.
It wasn't the Upper East Side,
and it was dirty.
I felt marooned.
Our mother had taken us off the track
of the nice life we'd been on.
She'd moored us in a creepy cul-de-sac
with her art-world friends.
None of the kids in my school
had parents in the art world.
It made me feel different,
like there was something
I had to cover up."
It was great.
Sorry I missed it.
Don't worry about it.
Hey. I heard you got
that Rolling Stone job.
We'll see. I'm sort of on probation.
Good luck.
Did you see Kirn's review
in New York magazine?
The guy's been
fuckin' canonized.
Sorry. Who's this?
David Foster Wallace.
"Next year's book awards have been
decided." Can you believe this?
"The plaques and citations can now be
put into escrow." It's unbelievable.
"With Infinite Jest,
by David Foster Wallace,
a plutonium-dense, satirical quiz-kid opus
that runs to almost a thousand"... What?
"A thousand pages,
not including footnotes,"
the competition
has been obliterated.
It's as though Paul Bunyan
had joined the NFL...
or Wittgenstein
had gone onto Jeopardy!.
"The novel is that colossally disruptive
and that spectacularly good."
That's the fucking
opening paragraph.
What if it actually
is that good?
You might just have to read it.
Shit.
Good piece. Thanks a lot.
Solid piece. I'm fine with it.
But you gotta clear it
with Legal, okay?
How many times have we interviewed
a writer in the last 10 years?
Take a guess.
Uh, how many?
Zero. I checked.
Maybe because Rolling Stone
doesn't interview writers.
There hasn't been a writer
like this. Okay?
Once in a generation maybe.
Hemingway, Pynchon.
Let me have this story.
What story?
He's finishing up a book tour,
and I want to go with him.
That's not a story.
He teaches at some small state
university somewhere in Illinois.
Please, Bob. Send me there.
This is the sort of stuff I should be
doing, not 500 words on boy bands.
Talk to Jann.
There better be a story there.
There will be. There better.
David, hi. It's David Lipsky.
Where are you?
I think I may have made
a wrong turn somewhere.
Let's see. I am on
County Highway 29...
just across
from the Circus Video.
How'd you get this number?
Your publicist sent it
in her e-mail, just in case.
You'd do me a favor
by losing it.
Stay. Be calm. Be calm. Stay.
Hey. You made it. Yeah.
Dave. Dave Wallace.
David Lipsky. Hi.
It's a pleasure.
Likewise.
Um, I'm sorry about
the, uh... the phone call.
No, you're fine.
It was 95% joke.
Right, right. Yeah.
Sorry in advance about the dogs.
They'll be slobbering all over you.
I don't mind at all.
I love dogs.
Oh, yeah? You haven't met these guys yet.
No, I love 'em.
Let's, uh... Oh, Jesus. Let's get inside.
It's cold.
Boys. Get in there.
Thanks a lot.
Ooh. Come on. Come on, buddy.
Wait. I'm very glad to meet you too.
Good dog.
Who's that? Oh, that's Jeeves.
Hi. Yeah, that's
the Jeeve-meister.
I got him 'cause he was so ugly.
Nobody else wanted him.
Now he's, like,
a cover girl dog.
And that's Drone.
That's my provisional dog.
Why? Why provisional?
He just showed up one day while
Jeeves and I were out jogging.
The rest is history.
I feel like I should
offer you tea or something.
Yeah. Yeah, thanks. That'd be great.
Yeah? Okay.
Nice view.
Thank you. I can't
take credit for it.
Huh.
So, um, have you
always been unlisted?
I had to do that recently. It
was getting kind of crazy.
Oh. Because of...
Because of fans.
I don't know if "fan" is
exactly the right word.
I think what happened was I had forgotten to
tell my parents not to give my number out.
So it was people who had
tracked my parents down.
I have this terrible problem. I really
hate to hurt people's feelings.
Mmm, right. So I did
somethin' kind of cowardly.
No. I don't think unlisting your
number is cowardly. Kind of is.
I changed my number so these
folks couldn't find me anymore.
Right.
There was this computer
operator from Vancouver.
He was living in a
basement or something.
I found him very moving. He was
in terrible, terrible pain.
What did he want from you?
It's unclear. And when I
would, sorta like, ask him,
that's when he would get angry,
and then it got scary.
Right. What-What is this?
Who's the artist?
That's my friend's daughter.
Calls me chicken head.
I call her chicken head.
It's her latest salvo
in the war.
Um, that's funny.
Would you mind if I...
No. Do what you gotta do.
Thank you.
Listen, before we start putting stuff
on tape, I need to ask you something.
I need to know that anything that I
say five minutes later not to put in,
that you're not
gonna put it in.
Absolutely.
Just given my level of fatigue
and my fuckup quotient lately,
it's the only way I can see doin'
it and not... not going crazy.
No. I completely understand.
It's right back on, huh? Mmm.
Uh, you agreed
to the interview.
So this is your road, huh?
Yeah, this is my road.
You're gonna have to tell me where to turn.
I'm used to a grid system.
This is all new
territory for me.
Fair enough. You just go
straight for about a mile.
There'll be signs for the
school on the right.
Got it. Do you like
teaching there?
I do. Yeah, very much.
Which is what's so fucked.
I feel so bad for these kids.
Why do you feel bad for them?
They have the greatest writing
teacher in the world.
If I was there, maybe.
The whole fuss...
it's taken me out of school
for the past two weeks.
And we gotta leave
again tomorrow.
We gotta be up at the crack
of dawn to go to the airport.
Oh, shit. Do we really? That's
what you signed on for, man.
You're welcome to stick around and
write an article about my dogs.
No, that's just fine. Might be
more interesting. I promise you.
Do yourself a favor. Don't
expect any fireworks in there.
I'm sure you're gonna
be just fine.
Campus-romance story.
Ah! I gotta tell you guys,
the average citizen is not gonna
find it that interesting.
The great dread of creative
writing professors?
"Their eyes met over the keg."
I just want my narrator to be
funny and smart, you know?
I know, I know. I get it.
You want your narrator
to be funny and smart.
Here's a tip.
Have him say funny, smart things
some of the time.
Thank you.
You did a good job. Thank you.
Um, all right, who's next?
Melissa.
I'm normally a much better
teacher than that, I swear.
I thought you were great and
that they obviously love you.
Oh, yeah? Do you think?
Yeah, come on,
you know they do.
You hungry?
And what can I
get you to drink?
I'll just have, like, a
giant Diet Rite, please.
You know what,
I'll have the same thing.
I'll be right back with your pop.
Thanks, man.
Oh. Uh, can I, uh...
Do you mind if I... One second.
Uh...
You don't drink.
Is that a question to me?
No. No, it's an observation.
Ah, I see. No, I know.
No, I do not drink.
You can order whatever you want though.
Go right ahead.
No, no. That's fine.
I have a lot of friends who have
been through the program, so...
They always tell me that
they're uncomfortable...
with people drinking
right in front of them.
So I just... Ah.
I mean, out of respect, I...
I got what you got.
I'm not any sort of authority
on any sort of program.
From my very limited
outside understanding,
for people who have been
in it a while,
you could snort cocaine off the back
of your hand, they'd be all right.
Right. Right. Right.
You know what I would love to do, man?
What's that?
I would love to do a profile on one of
you guys who's doin' a profile on me.
That is interesting. Is
that too pomo and cute?
Maybe for Rolling Stone.
It would be interesting though.
You think?
I'm sorry, man. What's wrong?
It's just you're gonna go back to
New York and sit at your desk...
and shape this thing
however you want.
To me, it's just
extremely disturbing.
Why is it disturbing?
Because I think I would like to shape the
impression of me that's coming across.
I don't even know
if I like you yet.
I'm so nervous about
whether you like me.
Here you go.
Your food will be out soon.
Can I get you anything else?
No, we're fine. Thank you.
Thanks.
Um...
What's this story about
in your mind?
What does Jann want?
Just what it's like to be the most
talked about writer in the country...
or that sort of thing. Right.
Which makes it sound...
How do you learn
to do this stuff?
Do what? The interviewing.
Does one go
to interviewing school?
Yes, I went to eight years
of interviewing school.
So you got a master's? I did.
Um, no. No, I'm... I'm a writer.
Uh, okay. Great. Yeah.
I mean I write fiction
as well. I...
I just had a novel
published actually.
Great. Yeah.
What's... What's that called?
The Art Fair. The Art Fair.
Great.
And I had a collection
published a few years ago, so...
You're, like,
a nervous guy, huh?
No, no. No, I'm okay. How are you?
I... 'Cos I'm terrified.
Are you? Yes. You're
not alone in this.
Okay. We'll do this together.
No, I think it's gonna
be a lot of fun. Yeah.
The thing about the tour
is, yes,
I would like to get laid
off of it a couple of times.
People come up.
They kind of, like, slither up.
And it seems like...
I don't know.
What I want is not to have
to take any action.
What kind of action? I don't
want to have to say, like,
"Do you want to come
back to the hotel?"
I want them to say, "I am
coming back to your hotel."
"Where is your hotel?" That would
be easier for you, wouldn't it?
I can't stand to look like I'm
actively trading off this sexually.
Which, of course,
I'd be happy to do.
I think, in retrospect, I'm
probably very lucky that I didn't.
Lucky? Why?
It just would have made me feel lonely.
You know?
Lonely? How so?
It wouldn't have had
anything to do with me.
I think it would have
been... just...
Your fame? Yeah. Whatever.
Your fame. You can say it.
Fine, fine.
You're famous. Okay, whatever.
You are. Except, though, if they're
responding to your work...
and your work
is really personal,
then reading you is another
way of meeting you.
Isn't that right?
That's so good. Thank you.
This piece will be excellent
if it's mostly you.
Talk all you want, man. Save
me a whole lot of trouble.
Wow! So this is what
a real car feels like.
The one I got is like riding
around on a power lawn mower.
You know?
Do you think being handsome has
anything to do with your success?
- What?
- No, you're photogenic.
You look good in your author's photo.
Come on.
You have to come put me down if
I even start thinking that way.
Thinking what way? What,
about how books are sold?
Like, "Do you want to do
a Rolling Stone interview?"
Do you want to do X?
Do you want to do Y?
It really worries me that what I'm
doing right now is like being a whore.
A whore? Hey. Why?
Cashing in somehow or like getting
some little celebrity for myself...
that will, from some bizarre set of
misunderstandings, sell more copies of the book.
- Mmm, okay.
- You can quote that if you want.
Preferably in a context where I
don't sound like a total dweeb.
Don't worry about it.
By the way, are they gonna send
Annie Leibovitz to take pictures?
I'm not sure. Possibly.
See how the story turns out.
I know. You're a really
good-looking guy.
We should have 'em photograph
you, say you're me.
Maybe I'll finally end up
getting laid.
You're gonna drink all that?
I don't want to have to come back.
I wish they had a case.
Actually,
that's a good idea. Um...
Get the marshmallow one
too, please.
All right. One?
Two. Two. Of course.
Why would I get one?
One second. Okay.
Okay, all right. I think that's enough.
Come on.
Hey, Kim. Hi. We'll
take all of these.
- Please, let me.
- No, you don't have to pay for my shit.
No, no. It's not coming out of my pocket.
I have an expense account.
If you insist, yeah. Yeah.
If we ate like this
all the time... Yeah?
What would be wrong with that?
What would be wrong?
Besides your teeth falling out
and getting really fat?
It's got none of the
nourishment of real food,
but it is real pleasurable masticating
and swallowing this stuff.
Yes, it is. It's like seductive
commercial entertainment.
Mmm, but what saves us is that most
entertainment is not very good.
But what about good seductive commercial
entertainment like... like Die Hard?
First Die Hard? Great film.
No, it's a brilliant film.
The best. So good. Absolutely.
I think, if the book
is about anything,
it's about the question
of "Why?" Right.
"Why am I watching
all this shit?"
It's not about the shit. It's about me.
Right. Yeah.
So why am I doing it?
And what's so American
about what I'm doing?
The minute I start talking about this
stuff, it sounds, number one, very vague,
and number two,
really reductive.
I don't think you're being
vague or reductive at all.
Okay, because I don't have
a diagnosis...
or a system of prescriptions
as to why we...
When I say "we," I mean
people just like you and me...
mostly white,
upper middle class,
obscenely well educated,
doing really interesting jobs,
sitting in really expensive
chairs watching the best,
most sophisticated electronic
equipment money can buy.
Why do we feel so empty
and unhappy?
Right. It's kind of like Hamlet
except with channel surfing.
I'm not saying that watching TV
is bad or a waste of your time...
any more than, like, masturbation
is bad or a waste of your time.
It's a pleasurable way
to spend a few minutes.
But if you're doing it
20 times a day...
if your primary sexual relationship
is with your own hand,
something is wrong.
Except at least
with masturbation,
some action is being
performed, right?
Isn't that... That's better.
Okay, you could make me look like
a real dick if you print this.
No, I'm not going to, but, if
you can, speak into the mike.
Yes, you're performing muscular movements
with your hand as you're jerking off.
But what you're really doing,
I think,
is you're running a movie
in your head.
You're having a fantasy relationship
with somebody who is not real...
strictly to stimulate
a neurological response.
So as the Internet grows
in the next 10, 15 years...
and virtual reality pornography
becomes a reality,
we're gonna have to develop some
real machinery inside our guts...
to turn off
pure, unalloyed pleasure.
Or, I don't know about you, I'm
gonna have to leave the planet.
'Cause the technology is just
gonna get better and better.
And it's gonna get
easier and easier...
and more and more convenient
and more and more pleasurable...
to sit alone
with images on a screen...
given to us by people who do not
love us but want our money.
And that's fine in low doses,
but if it's the basic
main staple of your diet,
you're gonna die.
Well, come on.
In a meaningful way,
you're going to die.
Hey. Can I try that actually?
Yeah. It takes some getting used to.
Go ahead.
Thanks.
It goes right there.
Yeah, I know.
Mmm. That's, um...
Actually, can I... Can I use
your bathroom for a second?
I believe it's unoccupied.
Mm!
Hey. Hey.
So, do you not
have a television?
I do not have a TV, no.
How come?
Because if I had a TV, I
would watch it all the time.
Ah. I don't even know if I
would watch it all the time,
but it would be on
all the time.
My version of a fireplace... some sort
of source of warmth and light...
in the corner, I'd
occasionally get sucked into.
Did you watch a lot of TV
when you were a kid?
Yeah, a lot. You?
I, uh... Me? Yeah.
No, I did. I did.
But I moved in with a woman, and
she grew up without a television.
So living with her for the
first month was like torture.
But then I realized it was
probably the best thing for me.
Did you guys stay together?
It was complicated.
Why?
Well, I was seeing this woman,
and she moved to LA,
so we theoretically broke up.
Then I started seeing
this other woman.
But then I started seeing
the first woman again.
We tried the bi coastal thing.
And let's just say the second woman
didn't take to that very well.
It's so much easier
having dogs.
I'm sure it is.
Yes, you don't get laid, but
you don't have that feeling...
like you're hurting their
feelings all the time.
Right, right, right.
I'd like to emphasize...
strictly platonic relationship
with the dogs.
I'll make sure to highlight
that in the article, sure.
Uh, so, you're not
dating anybody then?
Seriously dating?
No. I'm out of practice.
I wouldn't even know
what to say.
Do you want to have kids?
I think someday I would.
You? Yeah.
Yeah, I think, eventually. Yeah.
I think that writing books is a
little bit like raising children.
You have to be careful though.
It's okay to take pride
in the work,
but I think it's bad to want the
glory to reflect back on you.
It sounds like you're worried
about having children.
I don't know that I want to say
anything more about that.
If that's okay. That's fine.
It's fine for us to joke about
getting laid on tour and stuff,
but that's... that's about it.
I just thought it'd be nice
to have someone...
to be sharing all this
wonderful stuff with.
That's it. Yeah.
I'd really wished that I was
married the past couple weeks.
You have?
Yeah. Nobody else
really gets it, you know?
Your friends who aren't
in the writing biz are just...
They're awed by
your picture in Time.
Your agent and editor
are good people,
but they have
their own agendas.
It's fun talking to you about it,
but you've got your own agenda too.
That's true.
Certainly a set of interests
that diverge from mine.
That's true.
So, yeah, it would be nice to have
somebody that you shared a life with...
and allowed yourself to be happy and...
confused with.
Somebody to call when you
get back to the hotel.
I got a question.
Why aren't you married, at 30?
Why aren't you married, at 34?
You first. Okay.
Uh... I don't know.
I just think it's hard to
cast that role, you know,
to fill it when you know it's
gonna be like 30 to 40 years.
To find someone who, whatever
mental landscape you're in,
they're gonna be in it too.
You have to find someone who will
fit any landscape you can imagine.
I don't know.
I can't put it
as well as you can,
you know, about
these mental landscapes.
I just... I know that
I'm hard to be around.
- No, I don't think so.
- I am.
Why do you say that?
When I want to be alone,
like, to write,
I really do want to be alone.
I think if you dedicate
yourself to anything,
one facet of that is that it makes
you very, very self-conscious.
And you end up using people...
wanting them around
when you want them around...
and then sending them away.
But that comes
with the territory...
if you're gonna be a writer...
that kind of self-consciousness.
There's good self-consciousness.
Then there's also
a toxic, paralyzing,
"raped by psychic bedouins" kind
of self-consciousness. Right.
That is scary.
Yeah, that sounds worse.
Can you do me a favor? Could you tell
me about that poster over there?
Alanis? Yeah.
I don't know. I guess I'm susceptible
like everybody else. Why?
I mean, she's pretty, but
it's the only thing in there.
She's pretty in a very sloppy,
very human way.
She's got this squeaky,
orgasmic quality to her voice.
You know, here's what it is.
A lot of women in magazines are
pretty in a way that is not erotic...
because they don't look like
anybody that you know.
That's true.
You can't imagine them putting a
quarter in a parking meter...
or, like, eating
a bologna sandwich.
Whereas, Alanis Morissette,
I can and have imagined her just, like,
chowing down on a bologna sandwich.
I find her absolutely riveting. -Nice. How did you
get into her? How did you get into her music?
I was listening to this
cheesy Bloomington radio,
and "I Want to Tell You"
came on.
"You Oughta Know." But right.
I don't know what that means.
I Want to Tell You is a book
that O.J. Simpson wrote.
Ah! That's a different thing.
Yeah.
Although, wouldn't it be funny if O.J.
Simpson sang "You Oughta Know"...
and Alanis Morissette wrote a book
about not killing two people?
Oh, man.
I tell you, if this whole
fuss, whatever,
could get me a five-minute
cup of tea with her...
Yo. Why don't you
put out feelers...
and see if she'd be
willing to meet you?
Are you serious? I would never do that.
Why not?
I would be terrified.
Why, would you do that?
If I were you, yeah,
I would do that.
A date with Alanis Morissette?
What would I say?
"Hello, Miss Morissette.
What is it like to be you?"
"I don't know.
Shut up and get
the fuck away from me."
That's that beautiful
squeaky voice you like.
That's right. And orgasmic.
But you would go
if she called you.
"Hey, Dave, I'm at the Drake
in Chicago. Let's have tea."
This is gonna look ridiculous.
It's gonna look like
I'm using Rolling Stone...
as a vehicle to, like...
- It's been used for worse.
- Yes, I would do it.
Okay? I would do it in a heartbeat.
Good.
Perspiring heavily
the whole way,
the whole time shoving Certs
into my mouth. Exactly.
Freaking out. It would cause me
a week of absolute trauma.
And, yes, I would do it
in a... in a heartbeat.
Okay? Are you happy?
We got that?
It's on the record. Okay.
Um...
I like... Eh.
I like talking to you
about this stuff.
But we should...
We gotta be up early.
Really? What time is it?
It's, like, 10:00.
I think it's, like, 11:30,
dick brain.
Oh, shit. Jesus. I am so sorry.
I totally lost track of time.
What time do you want me
to pick you up tomorrow?
Where you going?
There's a motel down the road.
I think it's a Days Inn.
Oh, no, you don't want
to stay there. Trust me.
I got a guest-roomish place
you could stay in.
No, I don't want to impose.
Don't thank me. It's not much.
Okay.
No, it's great. Thank you.
I should probably clean some
of that shit off the bed.
Right. Maximum comfort.
Thanks.
Definitely want
to change that sheet.
No, it's fine. Thank you.
Just throw it wherever.
Okay. Here you go.
Grab one side of this.
All right, thanks.
And you want to change the
pillows or just keep them?
I don't think you're going
to catch anything incurable.
That's all right.
I got penicillin.
Okay. You're good? Yeah.
Do me a favor. Leave the
door open for the dogs.
They like to wander
from room to room at night.
If the door's closed, they'll eat it
to get through it if they have to.
- Are you serious?
- Yeah.
Okay, yeah. Okay. Good night.
Good night. Thanks. Cool.
Oh. All right.
Hey, buddy. Okay. How are ya?
Okay. Hey. Oh. All right.
Psst! Okay.
All right. Thanks. Okay.
All right. Okay.
Have a good night.
Okay.
Oh. Hey.
If you want any,
there's coffee.
I don't need caffeine
to wake up.
Oh, but, uh, cigarettes?
Brothers of the lung. Mmm.
Do you want to split this with me?
It's my last one.
Uh, no, thanks.
Just... Here.
Mi Pop-Tart es su Pop-Tart.
Thanks. Try it.
It's delicious, right?
It's really good.
There's a Mitsubishi plant.
Then there's a lot
of farm support.
There's Ro-Tech,
Anderson Seeds.
What are you doing here? I mean,
why are you not in New York?
Every time I go to New York,
I get caught up in this...
There's this enormous hiss of egos at
various states of inflation and deflation.
Yeah. Hey, um, sorry.
I gotta do this.
Okay.
So, I gotta ask.
What is with the bandanna?
What? What do you mean?
No, people think it's your way of
connecting to a younger reading audience.
Is that what people think?
I don't see many Gen Xers
wearing them. Geez.
I kinda wish you hadn't
brought this up, man.
I'm sorry about that. Why?
Because now I'm worried
it's going to seem intentional.
Like, if I don't wear it,
am I not wearing it...
because I'm bowing to other people's
perception that it's a commercial choice?
Or do I do what I wanna do even though
it's perceived as a commercial choice?
It's like a whole crazy circle
I gotta go around in now.
Come on. Sorry.
When did you start
wearing them?
In Tucson. It was, like,
a hundred degrees all the time.
I would perspire so heavily, drip
into the electric typewriter.
I was nervous I was gonna
give myself a shock.
And then, at some point, I realized
I felt better with them on.
I know that it's a security blanket
for me whenever I feel nervous...
or, like, I gotta
keep myself together.
Makes me feel kind of creepy,
people view it as an affectation...
or a trademark or something.
It's more of a foible,
the recognition of a weakness that I'm
kind of afraid my head is gonna explode.
Right.
Your parents are both academics.
Is that right?
My dad, philosophy.
My mom, English.
So. You?
Me? Yeah.
My dad is in advertising,
and my mom's a painter.
When they split up, I moved
in with her to SoHo,
and my brother
moved in with my dad.
Sounds like
there's a story there.
Oh, there is.
I... I just wrote it.
What was it like, you know, growing
up in a house divided like that?
Hey. Who's interviewing who?
How old were you when you
started writing fiction?
Like, 21. Something like that.
Really? Never before?
I think I started a World War
II novel when I was nine.
Did you? That's very ambitious.
Thank you.
It was so good, some of my best work.
Come on.
It was about people with
hyper developed skills and powers...
going to invade
Hitler's bunker.
Very nice.
Then, in college, I wrote a couple
of papers for other people.
Really? People paid you to
write their papers for them?
I wouldn't put it that coarsely.
How would you...
There was a complicated
system of rewards. I see.
I would read two or three
of their papers...
and get a sense of what
their music was like.
At some point, I realized
I'm really good at this.
I'm like a strange kind
of forger.
I can sort of sound
like anybody.
It's kind of scary. Um...
Odds are I'm gonna want
to interview your parents.
What for? Just
biographical stuff.
Right.
I hereby request
that you don't.
Really? They're very
private people.
And so I would have a problem with that.
Mmm, okay.
So, no, you may not.
Okay. I may not.
Now boarding,
Flight 54 to Minneapolis.
Ticket. Thank you.
Crap jobs? Oh, man.
I was a security guard at a software
company for three and a half months.
Really? I walked around in
this polyester uniform...
under these fluorescent
lights, twirling a baton,
checking in on the walkie
every 10 minutes.
"All clear at this cubicle."
It was like every bad '60s novel
about meaningless authority.
You're thinking, "My God, I had two books
come out in my early 20s, and here I am."
No. No, as a matter of fact, one of
the things I liked about that job...
is that I walked around not thinking.
Really?
Mmm, in a very, like, "Huh. A
ceiling tile" sort of way.
And what about after the
security guard thing?
Was there anything else?
Oh, this is the worst. What?
Get this down. I am.
I was a towel boy at
this chichi health club.
You were a towel boy?
I was called something
other than a towel boy.
I was, in effect, a towel boy.
Occasionally trusted
with checking people in.
"Show your ID."
Anyway, one day
I'm sitting there.
Who should walk in to get
their towel but this guy,
this writer that I knew who won a Whiting
writer's award the same year I had.
Oh, God. Yeah.
So there I am.
I'm sitting there.
I'd been on a rostrum with
this guy... Holy shit.
Having Eudora Welty
give us an award.
Two years later,
I'm sitting there...
It's the first time I remember ever
actively diving under something...
to have somebody
avoid seeing me.
You dove under a table?
Something like that.
Did you think you were done? I thought
life was over. I was pretty sure.
And was this after
your suicide watch?
Okay, how do you
know about that?
I... I read about it somewhere.
This was McLean's, right?
How long were you there?
I was there for eight days.
And why were you there?
Because I was probably afraid
that I would do something stupid.
Okay.
I had a friend in high school
who tried to kill himself...
by sitting in a garage
with the car running.
And what it turned out was
he didn't die.
It just really
fucked up his brain.
And I, you know...
I knew that if anyone was fated to
fuck up a suicide attempt, it was me.
So there you are.
You're still in your 20s.
My late 20s.
Okay, your late 20s.
And you're in
some kind of pain...
about your desire to become some
sort of successful literary person.
I think that the not very sophisticated
diagnosis is that I was depressed.
Okay.
Okay. At that point, my ego was
all tied up in my writing.
It's the only thing
that I'd gotten any, like,
food pellets
from the universe for.
And I felt very trapped.
"Oh, my five years are up
and I gotta move on.
I don't want to move on."
And I felt stuck.
And it's not like I felt stuck
because I drank, okay?
It was like I felt
my life was over at 28,
and I felt really bad.
I did not want to feel that,
so I did all sorts of stuff.
I would drink real heavy.
I would... fuck strangers.
Sometimes I would not drink at all,
not drink at all for two weeks.
Instead, I would run 10 miles
every morning in a desperate...
like, a very American...
"I will fix this somehow by taking
radical action" sort of thing.
And here you are promoting
this acclaimed book.
That's not bad.
David, this is nice.
This is not real.
By the way, an escort is
supposed to pick me up...
and escort me to the reading.
Of course, when I hear "escort," I
picture, like, full geisha and hair...
Of course, right.
Take you to the bookstore and
take you back to the hotel,
walk on your back and then
just fuck your eyeballs out.
I think that's her.
Ah, just as I pictured.
Mr. Wallace. Just "Dave."
I recognize you from
your photograph. Okay.
I'm Patty Gundersson.
And welcome to Minneapolis.
Thank you, Patty. Hi. I'm David Lipsky.
How are you?
Hi. Okay. David and David.
That's easy.
- It's the Twin Cities, so...
- Hmm.
We only just met. He's
writing a piece on the tour.
- Should we get going?
- Yes. Come on. Come on. Great.
How's your morning, Patty?
Oh, it's good.
How about you guys?
Was the flight all right?
You would not believe the
famous people I've driven.
Shirley MacLaine when she
was on her book tour.
Ron Wood, you know,
of the Rolling Stones.
Of course. Yeah. Wow.
Peter O'Toole. Oh, my gosh.
Very thin, but delightful.
Hey! Look, there's the
Mary Tyler Moore statue.
Yeah, there it is.
Did you want to stop?
Oh. No, it's fine.
Thank you. Are you sure?
Everybody who comes here, that's
the first thing they want to see.
"Where did Mary Tyler Moore
throw her hat up in the air?"
It's really one of our
biggest attractions.
Are you sure you don't
want me to stop?
Definitely. No.
Thank you though.
Trust me. This is about
as sexy as the tour gets.
Mr... Uh, Lipsky.
L-I-P-S-K-Y.
I've got you
in a standard double.
And Mr. Wallace? Yes.
You have a room with twins.
Ah, yes. Anita and Consuela.
Excuse me?
All right, man. I'll see you soon.
I'm gonna take a nap.
Oh. Uh...
Yeah.
What does he say
about the heroin rumors?
I haven't gotten to that.
What are you waiting for?
What am I supposed to say? "Is it
true you were a heroin addict?"
Yes. That's your story.
Okay, well, that's... It's hard.
Why, because you like him?
Yeah. Yes.
David, you gotta press him.
Okay.
Be a prick if you have to. You're
not his best buddy. I know.
You're a reporter.
All right. Bye.
It's right up here.
Ready?
- Ah!
- There he is.
I can't believe
you guys actually came.
Yeah, of course. Hi. Hi.
Wouldn't miss it. Hello.
Gluttons for punishment, both of you.
I know.
Uh, this is Dave Lipsky. He's a
reporter from Rolling Stone.
Yes. Hi. Oh.
This is Julie. Hi. Nice
to meet you, Julie.
Great to meet you.
And, uh... This is Betsy.
Betsy and I went
to grad school together.
How nice. Nice to
meet you, Betsy.
And, Julie, how do you...
Julie... Here, turn this on.
This is on, right?
It is. Why? Go ahead.
Do you wanna...
I'll do it. Julie wrote
me a fan letter.
Really? Mm-hmm.
I really did. I... Yeah.
I was the books editor at City
Pages, and I wrote him a fan letter.
Julie's worked with
a whole lot of writers.
So I was very discriminating.
And then it turned out that we
actually like each other as people.
Indeed. That's actually what
happened with Jon Franzen and me.
I wrote him a fan letter. Turns
out writers are real pushovers...
when it comes to flattery.
So you could try that sometime.
I got it. Very subtle.
Friends of friends who
have friends, as well,
who actually know who... Cookies?
Oh, no. Thanks a lot.
Oh, no. Thank you.
Cookies?
Really? Yes, and I've actually
been sworn to secrecy.
Are you sure I can't get
you something to drink?
Do you have any
artificial spit?
I don't know why
you guys are laughing.
It's an actual
pharmaceutical product.
Called Xero-Lube. It's
like artificial saliva?
That's right. That's right, David.
Really?
Except it's better because
it actually lubricates.
You don't get that, like...
I see. That clicky sound.
Could you do that for Rolling Stone?
Here you go.
I'll have to remember that.
It's all right. Next tour,
I'll bring myself a case.
In the meantime,
what can I get you?
Just water with no ice, please.
Are you a fiction wri... This
is off the record. Oh, good.
Are you a fiction writer?
I'm a poet actually.
Really? Could I have
seen anything of yours?
I just had my first poem
published in The Kenyon Review.
Really? Wow. Congratulations.
Yes. Thank you.
I'm sorry. I don't mean
to be a prima donna,
but do you mind if we
don't do a Q and A?
Yeah, of course. Whatever makes
you feel most comfortable.
Thank you. Sure.
It's always questions like,
"Where do you get your ideas?"
I don't know. From a Time-Life
subscription series for 17.95 a month.
Okay. Now, it's show time.
Okay.
Here we go. Yeah.
It's all downhill from here.
It's fine.
This is the very last stop
on his book tour,
and we're very lucky
to get him.
Ladies and gentlemen,
welcome to The Hungry Mind,
David Foster Wallace.
Hello. Hi. Hi.
No, I never show
my mother anything.
Now I feel embarrassed
that I said that.
But that's very sweet.
It is, right?
What's that supposed
to be, a computer?
No, that's a smiley face.
Oh. Right.
I could put white-out
on it if you want.
That's okay. It's your book.
Okay.
Oh, man. This old thing.
Do you mind?
I don't mind, but the
new one's a lot better.
Awesome.
I just realized that they...
they want me to be good.
You know what I mean?
It's just something about,
like, giving back.
You know, in that way.
That made me feel kind of
better about everything.
Please, give us the... It's
not... There's no story.
How did it happen then? Okay.
I couldn't be regular
old Dave Wallace...
'cause there were Dave
Wallaces all over the place.
And David Rains Wallace
wrote for the New Yorker.
I don't know if you remember.
So then, one day... It
was Fred Hill asked me,
"What's your middle name?" Dave
Foster Wallace. That's it.
That's your story? Yes.
That is literally the worst superhero
origin story I've ever heard.
I cannot claim that it
was an origin story.
Dave, remember in Tucson that professor
you kind of locked horns with?
Oh, man. My nemesis, who shall
remain nameless. Oh, come on.
I was just kind of a prick.
I think he was too.
I was unteachable.
I don't think I was actively
unpleasant in class.
You were pretty unpleasant.
Okay, Betsy. Betsy. Really.
Oh, I loved it. I loved it.
Betsy, this is... She loved it.
He was pleasantly unpleasant.
That's a great quote, if you
want to quote something.
I'm gonna have to interview
the teacher as well though.
Hmm.
I have to be up unconscionably early
for this public radio interview,
so we should probably
get going.
That means I have
to get up early too.
You can do whatever the fuck you want.
You know?
You can sleep in
if you want to.
Well, we'll get you back
to the hotel then.
Check. You know what,
I will get the check.
I'll get it. Please,
this one is on me.
Well, it's on Jann.
No, no. It's on me.
Jann? Jann's his boss.
No, this one is on me. It was
just so nice to meet you guys.
Mr. Rolling Stone. Yeah.
Can you close the window?
It's fucking freezing.
No, sorry, I cannot. This is our
hypothermia smoking tour of the Midwest.
Hypothermia smoking tour.
I love that.
- Oh, thank you.
- Sounds like something Dave would say.
Doesn't it?
Thanks, ladies. Yeah, sure.
Yeah, thank you so much. Sure.
What are you doing tomorrow?
Oh. I'm not sure yet.
Well, give us a call if you want.
We're here.
Okay. Will do.
Thanks again for coming.
Thank you so much.
Nice to meet you, Julie.
Bye, Betsy. Bye. Bye, David.
That was fun.
Yeah, it was nice.
All right, I'm hungry. Still?
Yeah, it's terrifying
when it's happening.
Really? How does it
feel though?
People fighting to get in. A big line
of people wanting to impress you.
I tell you what. I think
that having an audience...
like, really,
really pretty girls...
who are all paying attention to you
and kind of like what you're saying,
that's gratifying on a fairly, I
think, just simple mammal level.
I know. Why is that?
I think pretty girls are what we most
dream and despair of ever having,
like, pay attention to us.
There they are in the front
row making eyes at you.
I think my girlfriend
is in love with you.
Come on. No, she's not.
No, really.
I think she is.
I think she likes your
writing better than mine.
That's kind of annoying.
Let's get her on the phone.
Get her on the phone. What?
No.
No. I don't know. She's...
She's probably sleeping anyway.
Please.
Hello? Hi.
How's it going? It's,
uh... Did I wake you up?
No. I'm up reading
Infinite Jest.
Pretty amazing. Oh. Good.
Listen, I'm here with somebody
who wants to talk to you.
Can you hold on a second?
What's her name again?
It's Sarah. Yeah. Sarah.
Sarah, hi. It's Dave Wallace.
Nice to meet you
telephonically.
It's nice to meet you
telephonically as well.
Is David behaving himself?
Let me ask him.
Are you behaving yourself?
She's asking that?
I'm reasonably sure that he is.
I don't have eyes on him 24-7.
Sarah? Okay.
What are you doin' tonight?
Don't ask her that.
Oh, wow. You're kidding me. Oh, my gosh.
Yes. It's awesome.
What part are you on?
369. Wow, you're
really far along.
I know. I can't put it down.
Oh, thank you.
Really, thank you. I mean,
that's very flattering.
What the fuck was that about?
What?
You were on the phone with him
for half an hour.
It wasn't a half hour. It was. It
was 25 minutes. Okay? I timed it.
You were only supposed
to say hello.
- David?
- David, we gotta go.
Uh, the escort's waiting.
Hey. Sorry.
I got totally, like, sucked
in with this orgy of crap.
There's a simultaneous broadcast of Falcon
Crest, Magnum P.I. and Charlie's Angels.
Okay. A perfect storm of shit.
I'll be out in a second, okay?
Okay.
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Here, go in. Can you go around?
Yeah, yeah. Sure. Thanks.
You're wearing that?
For a radio interview? Uh, yes.
Hi. Dave. Dave Wallace.
I know who you are.
My amanuensis... Mr. Boswell.
- Mr. Boswell.
- Very clever. Hi.
Right this way.
We record digitally.
I hope that's okay.
So just yes or no answers?
That's very funny. Hey.
What? Hey. You do a really
mean job with this,
Yeah? I got, like, 20
years to get you back.
You remember that.
You're gonna be fine.
My guest today
is David Foster Wallace,
who has burst on
the literary scene...
with his 1,079-page,
three-pound, three-ounce novel,
Infinite Jest.
Jay Mclnerney called it "something
like a sleek Vonnegut chassis..."
wrapped in layers
of post-millennial Zola."
David Foster Wallace,
welcome to our show.
Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
All right. Now, you have said
you saw yourself as, quote,
"a combination of being incredibly
shy and being an egomaniac too."
I believe I said
"exhibitionist" also.
Meaning?
I think being shy basically
means being self-absorbed...
to the extent that it makes it
difficult to be around other people.
Difficult for you or difficult
for the other people?
Ah. I suppose
a little bit of both.
That was wonderful. Oh, yeah?
I listened to the whole show.
It was so interesting. Thanks.
I may have to buy your
book and read it.
- Uh, sorry about that.
- Oh, no!
Wasn't he wonderful?
He was wonderful.
Oh, my gosh. So, you have
the rest of the day free.
Where would you like to go?
Yeah.
Do you know where
the Mall of America is?
Yes, I do. Great.
Yes, I do. Yeah.
I wanted to write something
that had the sort of texture...
of what American life
is like now.
- This tsunami of stuff just comin' at you.
- Right.
Also, it's not unfun, I don't think.
No. I don't think so either.
No. Not at all. I mean, although it
is, uh... it is sort of heavy though.
Right? Weight-wise at least.
My friend said, when it hit his porch,
it sounded like a car bomb going off.
Right. Exactly. And... And who
do you think your readers are?
Are they, uh...
Are they college kids?
The people who seem most
enthusiastic are young men.
Which I guess I understand.
It's a fairly male book.
It's a fairly nerdy book, too,
about loneliness.
You also can expect that someone who's
willing to read... and read hard...
a thousand-page book is gonna be
someone with some loneliness issues.
Right.
So, is that what you think
the book is about then?
About loneliness?
I think that if there's a sort
of sadness for people under 45,
it has something to do with pleasure
and achievement and entertainment.
Like a sort of emptiness at the heart
of what they thought was going on,
and maybe I can hope
that some parts of the book...
speak to their nerve endings
a little bit. Mm-hmm.
If you quote any of this, by the way,
you'd do me a great favor by saying...
this is what I hope
for the book, you know.
This is what the book is trying to achieve.
I don't pretend that it has.
That's... That's fine. Um...
So the Walter Kirn review in, uh,
New York magazine. Did you...
I heard about it. I didn't read it.
You didn't read it.
"Next year's book awards have been
decided." How do you feel about that?
How do I feel about it? I applaud
his taste and discernment.
What do you want me to say?
How would you feel about it?
How would I feel?
That something that I had known was really
good was now being validated by somebody else.
All I know is this is absolutely the
best I could do between 1992 and 1995.
If everybody had hated it,
I wouldn't have been thrilled.
I don't think I would have
been devastated either.
When you're used to doing heavy-duty
literary stuff that doesn't sell well,
being human animals with egos, you accommodate
that fact by the following equation.
If something sells really well,
gets a lot of attention,
it's gotta be shit, right?
Right. Of course.
The ultimate irony is, if your
thing starts selling well,
gets a lot of attention,
the very mechanism
you used to shore yourself up...
when your thing didn't sell
well... Doesn't work anymore.
It's now part of the darkness nexus when
it does, so you're totally screwed.
You know, you can't win.
I don't really see how they
could've gotten lost. Right.
I mean, it's a straight shot.
Yeah. Of course.
Right, just past the food court.
Yeah. Through the amusement park.
Through the first lobster.
Yeah. Don't go to the aquarium.
Turn right.
Do not... If you see fudge,
you've gone too far.
Hey! Hello.
Aw. Hey!
- Hello.
- It's good to see you.
Nice to see you. Thanks
for driving up here.
Yes. You love it, I know it.
Nice to see you. Hello, Betsy.
Great. How are you?
What's The Juror?
Oh, that's a Demi Moore,
John Grisham movie. Yeah.
Happy Gilmore? No.
That's, uh, what? Adam Sandier.
Right. What about,
uh, Broken Arrow?
It's a dumb boy movie. Stuff blows up.
I've actually seen that.
You saw that already?
I did actually.
Wow, a man after my own heart.
But I would be happy to see
it again if you want to.
Nah. We can really
see anything.
Oh, man.
No.
Yes.
It's fantastic.
- Horrible.
- You have got to be kidding me.
That was the worst... The end, when
Travolta got impaled by the thing?
The worst movie I've ever seen.
He-He saved humanity, Betsy.
No, he did not. Have a heart.
He made it worse.
You've changed.
He made it worse.
What do we do now?
Do you have a TV? Uh-huh. I do.
Oh, God. You know what I mean.
Who knows? Okay.
I guess, you know. Oh, gotta hand
you, that show the other day.
With Sandra Bernhard?
Ah, Jesus Christ!
I know that guy actually.
Wh-Which one? The one
playing Letterman.
Really? You do?
How? We went to
Amherst together.
No. Yeah.
Was he a friend of yours?
I hated his guts so much.
Of course you did. Right.
Hey, wait. Does anyone
want drinks or anything?
No. No? Okay.
- But, um, there's also beer in the fridge.
- Soda's fine. Thank you.
- Why did you hate him?
- Pretty simple recipe.
He was, like, very cool and popular.
Mm-hmm.
And I was not. That was the basic offense.
Look at him now.
Hey. Hey.
Ah, I brought you something.
You brought me something?
Yeah. What is this?
Oh, my God. This is the, uh...
This is the Review, where
you have your poem in it.
Somewhere in there.
That's amazing.
What's on next?
Algiers, starring Hedy Lamarr.
Have you seen that?
Um, no. It's one of the greats.
And Hedy Lamarr is fascinating.
She invented, uh... She
invented frequency hopping.
No, she didn't. Yeah.
I will. I definitely will.
Um...
Hey, I was wondering.
When I get back to New York,
if I have any questions about what Dave
was like in grad school or something,
can I e-mail you?
Sure, if it's okay with Dave.
I'm sure it's fine with Dave.
That's great. So can I take your
e-mail address then? Sure. Uh, yeah.
Oh, that'd be great. Thank you.
You could just write it
on your book.
Thank you so much.
Can you read that?
I can see that it is letters. But,
no, I'll be fine. Thank you so much.
Sure.
- So, do you drink out of the tap?
- Yes.
Okay, great.
What are you...
What are you doing?
What?
I saw you hitting on Betsy.
Hitting on... I was...
I was talking to her.
David. I saw you.
You got her to give you
her address.
No, no, no. I got her to
give me her e-mail address.
In case I had questions about the
piece that I am writing about you.
Really? Okay. Yeah, really.
Well, I'll tell you what. What?
I don't want her
talking to you.
- I won't contact her.
- Look...
I told you that Betsy and I
dated during grad school.
The least... Look at me. The least
you could... No, you're not.
The least you could do
is show me the respect...
of not coming on to her
right in front of me.
Dave, I'm sorry if it looked that way.
That was not my intention.
And why would I want to get involved
with somebody who lives in Saint Paul?
I don't know. You're already involved
with somebody who lives in Los Angeles.
Okay.
Are you okay?
Yeah, everything's fine.
Thank you.
Okay.
Stay away from her, okay?
Be a good guy.
What'd I miss?
Everything. Nothing. Everything? That
seems like a gross exaggeration.
No. No! No!
No! No! No!
No!
9.50, please.
I got it. It's all right. My
expense account will pay for it.
Yeah, so will mine.
I said I got it.
Thank you.
Hey, um...
Good night.
Were you flirting? Sarah. Of
course I was not flirting.
He just... He went
completely crazy on me.
Well, you do that, David, you know?
You're not even aware of it.
Sorry, I do... What do I do?
You're compulsively flirtatious.
Okay. Well, now you're
taking his side.
I am not. Yes, you are.
Listen, I...
I think I'm just
really tired, okay?
I gotta go.
David?
David?
Good morning!
Hi.
And how are we this morning?
Think I'll sit up front.
Oh. Okay. Let me just,
um, move my stuff.
There you go.
Okay.
What?
You didn't think to write
down where we parked the car?
No. I didn't. Okay?
Sorry. I fucked up. All right?
I'm a fuckup.
Not everybody can be
as brilliant as you.
What is with you? What
the fuck is with you?
I gotta say,
there's something...
basically false about
your approach here.
What do you mean "false"?
Yeah, I think it's, uh...
I think it's part of your
whole social strategy.
In what way?
You still feel you're
smarter than other people.
Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.
But you act like you're
in a kids' softball game,
but holding back his power-hitting to
try and make it more competitive...
for the little ones, you know?
When? Here. Now. The
past three days.
It's part of your
social strategy.
You're a tough room, you know that?
It's so obvious,
the way you hold back your intelligence
to be with people who are, uh,
younger than you
or not as agile as you.
That would make me a real
asshole, wouldn't it? Well.
I don't think writers
are smarter than other people.
I think they may be more
compelling in their stupidity.
Or in their confusion.
But I think one of the real ways
I have gotten smarter...
is I don't think I'm that much
smarter than other people.
That's right.
There are ways in which other
people are a lot smarter than me.
And I gotta tell you, it...
It makes me feel kinda lonely.
What?
There's been certain stuff I've
told you that's been really true.
- I think it's been brave of me.
- No, no, no. Absolutely.
I've written enough
of these pieces to know...
you can write this up a hundred
different ways. You're right.
Ninety of which I'm gonna come
across as a monumental asshole.
And now it seems to me
like your read on this is,
"Wow. What an interesting
persona Dave is adopting...
- "for the purposes of this interview."
- No, that's not what I'm saying.
If we had done this by the mail, if I had access
to my library, if I could look stuff up...
My dream for this would be for you
to write it up, send it to me...
- and let me rewrite all my quotes.
- Right.
Which, of course, you'll never do.
But if I'm in a room...
by myself, alone, and I have
time, I can be really smart.
Yes, I think I'm bright.
I think I'm talented.
I'm not trying to
sound disingenuous...
- Oh, no?
- I am not an idiot.
Yes, I can talk intelligently
with you about stuff,
but I can't quite
keep up with you.
- Okay. That is such bullshit.
- Oh, believe me.
I am not doing some
sorta like, "Aw, shucks."
I'm just in from the country.
I'm not a real writer.
"I'm a regular guy" thing. I'm not
trying to lay some shit on you.
But you did it again though. You flatter
me, but you're just patronizing.
I just think that to look
across the room...
and to automatically assume
that somebody is less aware...
or that their interior life is
somehow less rich and complicated...
and acutely perceived as mine, makes
me not as good a writer. - Why?
Because it means I'm gonna be performing
for some faceless audience...
instead of trying to have a
conversation with a person.
If you think that's faux... You know what?
You think whatever you want.
I got a real, serious fear
of being a certain way.
And a set, I think, of real convictions
about why I'm continuing to do this.
Why it's worthwhile. Why it's not just
an exercise in getting my dick sucked.
Okay.
This is such a clever
tactic on your part.
Tactic? What tactic?
That's right. Get me a little pissed
off, get me a little less guarded...
I'm gonna reveal more.
Yes, it's true.
- I treasure my regular guyness.
- Mm-hmm.
I've come to think that maybe it's
my biggest asset as a writer.
That I'm basically
just like everybody else.
You know what? I'm not doing any
kind of faux thing with you.
And I'm not gonna say it again.
Okay. But that faux thing? What you just
said is an example of the faux thing.
You're not willing to risk
giving the full you.
I don't know if you're
a very nice man or not.
It's very clear you don't
believe a word that I've said.
All your protesting? You
know... I'm just a regular guy?
You don't crack open
a thousand-page book...
because you heard the author
is a regular guy.
You do it because he's brilliant,
because you want him to be brilliant.
So, who the fuck
are you kidding?
I don't have the brain cells left to
play any kind of faux games with you.
Mm-hmm. It's fine. Yeah.
Yeah, it's fine.
What are you thinking?
Tour's over. Yeah.
That just hit you.
Yeah. I'm gonna have to
kinda feel all of this now,
instead of just
sleepwalk through it.
What do you mean sleepwalking?
I've sort of unplugged myself
the past three weeks.
Meeting a whole lot of new
people and having to do stuff,
you're in this constant
low-level state of anxiety.
This deep existential fear you feel
all the way down in your butt hole.
What are you afraid of?
I mean...
What's the worst
that could possibly happen?
The worst? That I really get to like it.
That's the worst.
The attention? Yeah.
What would be so wrong
with that?
Become one
of these hideous, like...
"Yet another publication party.
Hey, there's Dave.
Stickin' his head
in the back of the photo."
- Rather be dead.
- Why?
I don't wanna be seen that way.
Why, would you?
Well, if you're deriving your satisfaction
from talking about your work...
instead of actually writing,
then yeah.
I mean, I guess you'd get
a lot less done.
Exactly. There's nothing more grotesque
than somebody going around saying,
"I'm a writer. I'm a writer.
I'm a writer."
I don't mind appearing
in Rolling Stone.
I don't want to appear
in Rolling Stone...
as somebody who wants to be
in Rolling Stone.
If you see me on a game show in the
next couple of years, I swear to God...
To have written a book
about how seductive image is,
how easy it is to get seduced
off of any meaningful path...
because of the way
our culture is now...
What if I become a parody
of that very thing?
You know, tomorrow,
you drive away.
And you get on a plane,
and this whole thing is over.
I go back to knowing, like,
20 people.
I'm gonna have to decompress from all this
attention, because it's like gettin'...
it's like gettin' heroin
injected into your cortex.
And where I'm gonna need
real balls, is to...
sit and go through that.
And try to remind myself
of what the reality is...
that I'm 34 years old and I'm alone
in a room with a piece of paper.
Hey. Here ya go.
I'll never leave you again.
I swear.
All right. Shit check.
Look what you did.
Look what you did.
A little excremental work. Looks like
we won't need this anymore, huh?
It's all right. It happens
to the best of us. Huh, boy?
Never fails.
They wait to do their thing until
after the dog sitter leaves.
Make sure your Rolling Stone
readers hear about that.
Hey, so I'm-I'm leaving
tomorrow and, uh...
I gotta ask you
about this rumor.
Is this the heroin thing? Yeah.
This is the heroin thing again?
Yeah.
It isn't true. What is so
hard for you to believe?
The reason it is so hard to believe
is because there is so much...
about drugs and
addiction in the book.
That doesn't mean that
it's autobiographical.
The book stuff is meant to
be a metaphor. What is...
You don't believe a fuckin' word
that I've said, do you?
I didn't say that.
I was not...
I never was a heroin addict.
Okay. The rumor I heard was that in the
late '80s, when you were at Harvard,
you got involved with drugs, and
you had some kind of breakdown.
I don't know if...
I don't know if I had a breakdown.
I got very, very depressed.
I told you that. It had
nothing to do with drugs.
I have spent most of my life in libraries.
I never lived that dangerous kind of life.
And I would never stick
a needle into my arm...
Okay, so how do you think
that rumor got started?
I have no ide...
- I have no idea.
- All right. All right. Calm down.
And I'm telling you, if you were to
structure this as some sort of like,
"and then he spiraled into
terrible addiction" sort of thing,
it would be inaccurate.
It was much more that I got
more and more unhappy.
The more unhappy I got,
the more I would drink.
There was no joy in that drinking.
I used it for anesthesia.
Okay? Okay. What kind
of drinker were you?
Were you a kind of falling-down drinker?
Were you a "waking up in the curb" drinker?
No, I was not. Okay? All right.
A part of my reticence
about this whole thing...
is that it won't make
very good copy for you.
Because, no, I was not
like that at all.
You did agree to this interview.
I know that I did.
All right. I'm not gonna
push much further. Sorry.
I am also aware that some
addictions are sexier than others.
My primary addiction my entire
life has been to television.
I told you that.
Now television addiction...
is of far less interest to your
readers than something like heroin...
that confirms the mythos
of the writer.
Yeah, a myth I do not believe.
Okay? Right. No.
I know you don't believe that. I'm
also aware that one of the things...
that's swirlin' around here is you want to
have the best fuckin' article you can have.
See, you know what? Why don't you
write whatever the fuck you want.
I am telling you that this was not
a Lost Weekend sort of thing.
Nor was it some lurid,
romantic,
"writer as alcoholic"
sort of thing.
What it was,
was a 28-year-old person...
who had really exhausted
a couple other ways to live,
had really taken them
to their conclusion.
Which for me was a pink room with a
drain in the center of the floor,
which is where they put me for an entire day
when they thought that I was gonna kill myself.
Where I got nothin' on. I got someone
observing me through a slot in the wall.
And when that happens to you,
you become tremendously,
just unprecedentedly willing...
to examine some other
alternatives for how to live.
You awake?
Yeah.
I was just thinking, um...
It wasn't a chemical imbalance,
and it wasn't drugs and alcohol.
I think, um...
It was much more that I had lived
an incredibly American life.
This idea that if I could just achieve X and
Y and Z, that everything would be okay.
There's a thing in the book about how when
somebody leaps from a burning skyscraper,
it's not that they're not afraid
of falling anymore.
It's that the alternative
is so awful.
And so then you're invited to
consider what could be so awful...
that leaping to your death would
seem like an escape from it.
I don't know if you have any
experience with this kind of thing.
But it's worse than any kind
of physical injury.
It may be in the old days what was
known as a spiritual crisis...
feeling as though every axiom in
your life turned out to be false...
and there was actually nothing.
And that you were nothing.
And that it's all a delusion and you're
so much better than everybody...
'cause you can see
how this is just a delusion,
and you're so much worse because
you can't fucking function.
It's really horrible.
I don't think
that we ever change.
I'm sure that I still have
those same parts of me.
Guess I'm trying really hard to
find a way not to let them drive.
You know?
Hey, um, okay. Good night.
Hi.
Okay. Hi.
Hey. Good morning.
Good morning.
Mornin', man.
Come on, boys.
Let's go. Good boys.
Come on. What are you doing?
Jeeves!
Jeeves, come on, boy.
You get instantaneous production
from the Jeeve-meister.
Drone's a much tougher nut.
- It is so beautiful out here.
- Yeah.
You should see it in the spring
when the wind blows.
You can see ripples.
It's like water.
- It's like the ocean, but real green.
- Mmm.
It really is.
It's kind of calm. Real pretty.
You hungry? Uh, yeah. Kind of.
But, um... God, I don't
think I want to go back.
Yeah, I know how you feel.
Should probably get going though.
Okay.
Hey, let me take you
someplace nice this time.
It'll be on Jann.
Thanks for holding the bag, man.
Of course.
I gotta eat something. I'm,
like, suddenly starving. Mmm.
You don't like pickles.
Oh, come on.
What? What, the whole
world needs to know...
what my mother's known for
years... I'm a picky eater?
Okay, I'm putting it away.
Thank you.
All right.
Can I give 'em a fry?
No. Come on.
All right, go for it.
Hey, Jeeve-meister.
Hey!
Watch this. What?
Jeeves. Jeeves. Sit.
Jeeves, sit. Sit.
Sit. Perfect.
Sit. God. Drone gets super
obedient when food is around.
Jeeves is still
kind of a wild man.
Do not leave food out around him.
He will go for it.
Good boy.
You're such a good...
You're not gonna make me look like
I'm one of those insane old women...
who talks to their dogs, are you?
Um, no.
Don't worry about it.
I am worried about it. My
dogs are gonna be offended.
The dogs are not gonna
read this article.
I gotta tell you. Hmm?
They've never taken to a man
the way they've taken to you.
Really? Nah.
Except me, of course.
Yeah. Yeah.
Oh. Can you hold this?
Yeah, of course.
Hello?
Hey.
Yes, I would like to, um...
I can't right now.
I got this guy here.
What guy?
Rolling Stone guy, yeah.
You know, can I just
meet you there?
Okay. Great. Yeah, perfect.
I'll see you then. Bye.
All right. Well, I should...
I should probably get out of here,
let you get on with your life.
That's, no... It's... There's just
this dance that I like to go to.
Sorry. You dance?
Yeah.
It's something I've discovered over
the past couple years I really like.
Although I'm not that good
at it yet.
Wait, sorry.
What kind of dancing?
I tend to do, like,
the jerk, the swim.
You know, like,
cheesy '70s disco.
Really? Yeah. It's one of the
things about living in Bloomington.
It's like a time warp. You're
completely hip if you do that.
Yeah, right. So, where do you go?
To a club?
I go to this Baptist church.
Why... Why do you go there?
Baptists can dance.
Wow. Dancing.
I will not vogue.
That is where I put my foot
down. I do not vogue.
Yeah. It's really cool though.
Like a lot of people show up.
And they got their
dancin' shoes on.
It's good. It's nice. Everyone for the
most part just leaves each other alone.
I thought it might be nice
before you go, if...
uh, maybe we could exchange
address data or something?
Yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah. I'll get my stuff together.
Great.
I'll start carving an ice
sculpture out of my car.
It's like Antarctica out there.
Uh, dog stuff. Throw toys. Chew toys.
Crap stains on carpet.
Uh, fireplace. American flag.
Shark doll on bookcase.
Alanis poster. Uh, soda cans.
Lots of them. There's Pepsi.
There's Mountain Dew.
Um, looks like a frat.
A kind of bookish frat.
Uh, there's a Botticelli
calendar... Birth of Venus.
Uh, wooden chess set.
Postcard of Updike.
Um, brain comparison...
male, female, dog. Cartoon.
In the bedroom, there is a
Barney towel used as a curtain.
There is a tennis ball. There's
a dental floss on top of books.
There's a photo collage of his family,
the kind kids put in their dorm rooms.
His sister is kind of pretty. She
looks like a female version of him.
There is, uh, stuff everywhere.
Clothes everywhere.
Sneakers on the floor.
Clothes draped over stuff.
Uh...
Blue toilet-seat cover,
looks like a rug.
Postcards.
Clintons, um, baboons.
A Saint Ignatius quote.
"Lord, teach me to be generous. Teach
me to serve you as you deserve."
To give and not to count the cost.
To toil and not to seek for rest.
To labor and not to ask
for reward...
"save that of knowing
that I do your will."
Hey.
Tell you what. Riding around
in that rental of yours.
That feeling of gliding? This thing
doesn't even have shock absorbers.
What... What is it?
It's just an old Civic.
I know it doesn't look like much.
But, man, this thing starts.
It's actually a problem.
Why is that a problem?
I gotta get a new one, but I
can't junk this. Why not?
It's my friend.
Ah.
Hey, David. I, uh...
Wow. Just happened
to have one on you, huh?
Yeah. I mean, I... I did debate
whether or not I should do this.
Why? I don't know.
Don't you think it's some kind of
kid-brother sort of thing to do?
No. Thank you. I look
forward to reading this.
Oh, you're welcome. I put my
address and e-mail on the flyleaf.
Oh. Okay. Cool.
I'll, uh... Yeah, I'll read it after I finish
the Heinlein, and I'll send you a note.
That's great. Thanks.
Be interesting to be inside
your head for a while.
I like your cover.
Yeah. Yeah, me too.
I actually had them use the same
art for the British edition.
Come on. You got
approval, and I d...
It's nice. It's very nice.
Don't worry about it. It was not
such a... not such a big success.
Hey, isn't it at all reassuring to
have a lot of people read you...
and, you know, say that you're
a really strong writer?
It'll be interesting to
talk to you in a few years.
Why do you say that?
My experience is that
that is not so.
The more people think
you're really great,
actually the bigger the fear
of being a fraud is, you know?
The worst thing about getting a
lot of attention paid to you...
is that you're afraid
of bad attention.
And if bad attention hurts you,
the caliber of the weapon
pointing at you has gone way up.
Like from a .22 to a .45. Mmm.
Look, there are parts of me that want a lot
of attention and think I'm really great...
and want other people
to see it.
I think that's one of the ways you
and I are sort of alike, you know?
All right. Hey, uh... All right.
Fuck. David.
I'm not so sure
you want to be me.
I don't.
Give my best to Jann.
"When I think of this trip,".
I see David and me
in the front seat of his car.
We are both so young.
He wants something better
than he has.
I want precisely
what he has already.
Neither of us knows where
our lives are going to go.
It smells like chewing tobacco,
soda and smoke.
And the conversation is
the best one I ever had.
David thought books existed
to stop you from feeling lonely.
If I could, I'd say to David that
living those days with him...
reminded me
of what life is like,
instead of being
a relief from it.
"And I'd tell him it made
me feel much less alone."
I need to use your bathroom
for a second.
I believe it's unoccupied.
It's me talkin'
into the tape recorder.
And Drone's sittin' behind me
just chillin' out.
I'm smoking. Having just said I
wouldn't smoke, I'm smoking.
Just me and your tape recorder.